I think alot of the best ideas are
1)Dont let a mob turn yellow prematurely. This leads to player frustration. If a player isnt honorable, they will "steal the mob back" by MPKing.
2)Allow the Mob(s) to return to their spawning points after the mob's hate list has been cleared. I suggest despawning them from the map and respawning the same mob(s) back from where they came (if its possible to take one mob and respawn them, or just respawn a new mob of the same type (nms included).
3)AOE effects only people in alliance or those on the mobs hate list
4)Bst's pets should respond the same way as a zoned mob.
5)We also need you to be more strict with players breaking ToS purposely. 3 Days of jailtime isnt enough. We understand we dont want you to lose a palyers 144+ bucks a year, however you need to look at the players you have, no the players you don't.
6)listen to your players, This Rep to allakhazam is a great idea, we really appreciate it
- Forums
- Final Fantasy XI
- General Discussion
- Suggestions for changing the MPK system
Suggestions for changing the MPK systemFollow
#729
Nov 06 2005 at 5:28 AM
#1. Hire more GMs
GM response to MPK is awful. It took one full hour to get a response from a GM after an MPK attempt in kuftal tunnel once. By that time the mpk attempt was long gone and even though there was a record in my log of the attempt, the GM was unable to do anything. I'm sorry but, this sucks. It allows for free roaming abuse of the fighting system. Either make mpk legal so that if someone tries to do it to me I can mpk them back or, have a GM mpk instant help line or something.
#2. Make it so that 2 hour abilities like perfect dodge only affect the monster that is claimed(except in special circumstances--mother globe, dynamis, etc).
This would eliminate the huge trains in places like Garliage Citadel where people intentionally train 846846843216846 bombs and skeletons on others while they fight serket in an attempt to steal. Granted this would also hurt people who are just trying to run away but, a good puller can avoid aggro for the most part and SHOULD want to die if they take back too many mobs for the party to handle. I've been a puller in many parties and I always take a death if I pull too many mobs. It's better than getting my party killed or clogging the zone for hours.
#3. AoE (goblin bombs, thundaga III, etc) affects only the person/party/alliance fighting--call for help included.
This would be fine for all areas including dynamis since every mob is sort of call for help status in there anyway.
#4. Make NMs increasingly harder for each spawn claimed by the same person. This isn't mpk but, is sometimes a cause of mpk attempts by frustrated people.
I'd lmao at this all day. This could actually make the valkurm emperor sort of emperor-like after a few consecutive kills. Say after 3 consecutive kills (which pretty much amounts to monopolization) the NM in question suddenly goes up by 30 levels. After 4 consecutive kills it goes up another 30 levels. That'd be truly awesome to see a Valkurm Emperor with the strength of Kirin. Have it stay that way until the mob returns to it's spawn area.
My take on things as they were at the launch of the game was that NMs were supposed to be dangerous. They were supposed to be feared. Why not put the fear back into people who monopolize.
Anyway, I hope that something happens because something needs to change.
Edited, Sun Nov 6 05:48:44 2005 by TheSteveO
Edited, Sun Nov 6 08:13:06 2005 by TheSteveO
GM response to MPK is awful. It took one full hour to get a response from a GM after an MPK attempt in kuftal tunnel once. By that time the mpk attempt was long gone and even though there was a record in my log of the attempt, the GM was unable to do anything. I'm sorry but, this sucks. It allows for free roaming abuse of the fighting system. Either make mpk legal so that if someone tries to do it to me I can mpk them back or, have a GM mpk instant help line or something.
#2. Make it so that 2 hour abilities like perfect dodge only affect the monster that is claimed(except in special circumstances--mother globe, dynamis, etc).
This would eliminate the huge trains in places like Garliage Citadel where people intentionally train 846846843216846 bombs and skeletons on others while they fight serket in an attempt to steal. Granted this would also hurt people who are just trying to run away but, a good puller can avoid aggro for the most part and SHOULD want to die if they take back too many mobs for the party to handle. I've been a puller in many parties and I always take a death if I pull too many mobs. It's better than getting my party killed or clogging the zone for hours.
#3. AoE (goblin bombs, thundaga III, etc) affects only the person/party/alliance fighting--call for help included.
This would be fine for all areas including dynamis since every mob is sort of call for help status in there anyway.
#4. Make NMs increasingly harder for each spawn claimed by the same person. This isn't mpk but, is sometimes a cause of mpk attempts by frustrated people.
I'd lmao at this all day. This could actually make the valkurm emperor sort of emperor-like after a few consecutive kills. Say after 3 consecutive kills (which pretty much amounts to monopolization) the NM in question suddenly goes up by 30 levels. After 4 consecutive kills it goes up another 30 levels. That'd be truly awesome to see a Valkurm Emperor with the strength of Kirin. Have it stay that way until the mob returns to it's spawn area.
My take on things as they were at the launch of the game was that NMs were supposed to be dangerous. They were supposed to be feared. Why not put the fear back into people who monopolize.
Anyway, I hope that something happens because something needs to change.
Edited, Sun Nov 6 05:48:44 2005 by TheSteveO
Edited, Sun Nov 6 08:13:06 2005 by TheSteveO
#730
Nov 06 2005 at 7:26 AM
Quote:
Idea #1: Adding in more HNMs that drops similiar items. If King Behemoth is the only HNM that drops specific items like Defending Ring for instance then introduce a new HNM in a entirely diff place for other LSes to spread out to. This HNM would also drop similiar items like King Behemoth would.
Idea #2: Take out King Behemoth entirely from the area and place him in a special area like a Kirin. Make King Behemoth a force spawn HNM by obtaining specific items like for Kirin. Create diff NM Type Behemoths scattered around Vanadiel to kill to obtain like some sort of Seal to force pop King Behemoth to kill.
Idea #3 Add-in more ways to obtain items that King Behemoth drops. There's over 5,000+ player accounts at least on Fenrir v.s. 1 King Behemoth. If you ask me its a little frustrating for any LS to be able to enjoy a great battle that requires a lot of people in the first place to kill a King Behemoth but also having to potentially compete with thousands of others for 1 Mob. It's not given the majority a chance to experience a great battle. The Kirin system is perfect where you force spawn Kirin after spending some hours killing other NMs/Gods to get Seals to pop Kirin.
Idea #2: Take out King Behemoth entirely from the area and place him in a special area like a Kirin. Make King Behemoth a force spawn HNM by obtaining specific items like for Kirin. Create diff NM Type Behemoths scattered around Vanadiel to kill to obtain like some sort of Seal to force pop King Behemoth to kill.
Idea #3 Add-in more ways to obtain items that King Behemoth drops. There's over 5,000+ player accounts at least on Fenrir v.s. 1 King Behemoth. If you ask me its a little frustrating for any LS to be able to enjoy a great battle that requires a lot of people in the first place to kill a King Behemoth but also having to potentially compete with thousands of others for 1 Mob. It's not given the majority a chance to experience a great battle. The Kirin system is perfect where you force spawn Kirin after spending some hours killing other NMs/Gods to get Seals to pop Kirin.
Items from HNM's are not suposed to be easy to get.... thats what makes people want to kill them.... people would soon get bored if there were 1000 other people running around with all the same gear on.
And besides they already have other versions of the nm to kill....its called KS99....they drop quite a few of the items that the real HNM drops...
#731
Nov 06 2005 at 7:48 AM
13 posts
YAY! Its my first post here, but I'm a long time reader and I want to have something to say about the NM camping and this MPK issue.
I don't camp NMs (I personaly feel its a waste of time), but I hear a lot of players talking that much MPK'ing is due to that camping, so I tough if a system that only allows players to engage a NM only X times in a period of time.
Let me move to some examples imagining that its the Valkrum Emperor:
1 - Player 1 engage and kills the Emperor. He then has a week "no engage" efect. This meaning that he can't engage him during a week after he killed him. That way I think would make it a more fair system, than having the same people killing them over and over again (which I think wasn't the idea the developers had when creating them).
2 - Player 1 might engage and kill the Emperor 4 times a month. This way a player might kill the NM 4 times in the same day, but its "no engage" efect would be longer.
Its just an idea. It might suck, but...
Just another thing, my english sucks, so I'm sorry for all the errors this post might have...
I don't camp NMs (I personaly feel its a waste of time), but I hear a lot of players talking that much MPK'ing is due to that camping, so I tough if a system that only allows players to engage a NM only X times in a period of time.
Let me move to some examples imagining that its the Valkrum Emperor:
1 - Player 1 engage and kills the Emperor. He then has a week "no engage" efect. This meaning that he can't engage him during a week after he killed him. That way I think would make it a more fair system, than having the same people killing them over and over again (which I think wasn't the idea the developers had when creating them).
2 - Player 1 might engage and kill the Emperor 4 times a month. This way a player might kill the NM 4 times in the same day, but its "no engage" efect would be longer.
Its just an idea. It might suck, but...
Just another thing, my english sucks, so I'm sorry for all the errors this post might have...
#732
Nov 06 2005 at 8:10 AM
34 posts
Suggestion: Do not change the game. It is fine the way it is. Rather change the way mpk is dealt with. The way that mpk is handled currentley is poor at best. If an mpk attempt occurs one can put in a call to a GM but the chance of immediate response is close to none. Survey your average day of GM calls to see what is so important that when an mpk call is made it gets put behind all the others. I am sure you will find many of them to be "So and so is botting this mob, or hey can you make a GM appearance i want a cool screenshot to show my friends". There are a million reasons to call a GM but the easiest one to prove is a real attempt at mpk. I say this because most mpk incidents are not just a random act of training a bunch of mobs once, but an ongoing pull of mobs repeatedly over a long period of time. However due to the fact that your GM call ends up in a line of calls that probably do not merit one, by the time a GM shows up to ascertain the situation it is usually too late to pinpoint a guilty party.
Suggestion: How to fix the problem without making drastic alteration to the game. Under the GM call selection create a mpk hot button. Kind of like the alarm switch at a bank in a way. This would alert a GM to an mpk attempt in progress instead of putting in a call and praying you are not number 12 in the call line. While this may upset some people if all of a sudden the GM has to rush off to deal with an mpk attempt... the issue of mpk is clearly a large enough issue to all of us (please note that this thread is already 15 pages long at this point) that perhaps a call of lesser importance could be put on hold for a few minutes while the crisis at large is put under control and necessary accounts are given warnings/suspended/banned.
Now I am sure that many of you are thinking "well hold on a minute... what keeps people from slamming on the panic button anytime something happens or someone just wants to get their GM call in first?" I thought about this as well and this is my other proposal. If you use the GM mpk call button in an inappropriate manner first time: a warning second time: suspension third time: account ban. Its a bit harsh but its time to put rules into effect. With use of good judgement you can tell the difference between accident and a real attempt at mpk. We all want SE to take a more interactive role within our community, but doing such things as making trained mobs not aggro until they reach their spawn point and such are not an active role. Kindly remember that we shell out 12.95 a month or w/e it is to recieve this service, so patching in a little program that would really make the game alot less interesting (if this is the first ff game you have ever played, all FF is based off random encounter.. so removing this would make the game more systematic and boring than it already can be) really lessens the value of the hard earned money you pay for what can be a very challenging and exciting experience.
So instead of trying to change the way the game is, lets focus on making the people we pay start working a little more for us. I praise you from SE for coming on here and ask that you try to push your people to work harder for the community they have created and not just put in another little bandaid patch.
Catch you on the three headed dog server.
Gen.
Suggestion: How to fix the problem without making drastic alteration to the game. Under the GM call selection create a mpk hot button. Kind of like the alarm switch at a bank in a way. This would alert a GM to an mpk attempt in progress instead of putting in a call and praying you are not number 12 in the call line. While this may upset some people if all of a sudden the GM has to rush off to deal with an mpk attempt... the issue of mpk is clearly a large enough issue to all of us (please note that this thread is already 15 pages long at this point) that perhaps a call of lesser importance could be put on hold for a few minutes while the crisis at large is put under control and necessary accounts are given warnings/suspended/banned.
Now I am sure that many of you are thinking "well hold on a minute... what keeps people from slamming on the panic button anytime something happens or someone just wants to get their GM call in first?" I thought about this as well and this is my other proposal. If you use the GM mpk call button in an inappropriate manner first time: a warning second time: suspension third time: account ban. Its a bit harsh but its time to put rules into effect. With use of good judgement you can tell the difference between accident and a real attempt at mpk. We all want SE to take a more interactive role within our community, but doing such things as making trained mobs not aggro until they reach their spawn point and such are not an active role. Kindly remember that we shell out 12.95 a month or w/e it is to recieve this service, so patching in a little program that would really make the game alot less interesting (if this is the first ff game you have ever played, all FF is based off random encounter.. so removing this would make the game more systematic and boring than it already can be) really lessens the value of the hard earned money you pay for what can be a very challenging and exciting experience.
So instead of trying to change the way the game is, lets focus on making the people we pay start working a little more for us. I praise you from SE for coming on here and ask that you try to push your people to work harder for the community they have created and not just put in another little bandaid patch.
Catch you on the three headed dog server.
Gen.
#733
Nov 06 2005 at 8:59 AM
I agree however can u go to http://blackofnight.home.insightbb.com/home.html and go to FFXI chat ad look at THE IDEA:Empire server please u may like it cause it is a good idea according to what the people on my LS say. or just click the following adress
http://www.miumu.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=99&mforum=blackofnight
But in a mpk what if the pty disbands and the monster has just gone aggro? or just [link=null]THE IDEA:Empire server [/link]
Edited, Sun Nov 6 09:20:18 2005 by Arroww
http://www.miumu.com/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=99&mforum=blackofnight
But in a mpk what if the pty disbands and the monster has just gone aggro? or just [link=null]THE IDEA:Empire server [/link]
Edited, Sun Nov 6 09:20:18 2005 by Arroww
#734
Nov 06 2005 at 9:15 AM
In situations where there are highly sought after NM's/Ground Gods, perhaps have witnesses be able to provide testimony when there are MPKs.
Example: Camped Alkyoneus, got claim, and a known gil seller crabs a bunch of Giga's trains them on us and Majin Gakure's.
All three people in my party call a GM, but there's no "proof" so nothing happens.
The gil seller was up there for a couple hours camping the NM. The other groups camping all witnessed it, but still no proof.
Gil seller is on for the rest of the day and back at Alky the next.
Somethingneeds to be done so there are consequences for malicious MPKs. But it seems whatever "burden of proof" GMs need to do something about it, is so much that in most cases, nothing happens.
Example: Camped Alkyoneus, got claim, and a known gil seller crabs a bunch of Giga's trains them on us and Majin Gakure's.
All three people in my party call a GM, but there's no "proof" so nothing happens.
The gil seller was up there for a couple hours camping the NM. The other groups camping all witnessed it, but still no proof.
Gil seller is on for the rest of the day and back at Alky the next.
Somethingneeds to be done so there are consequences for malicious MPKs. But it seems whatever "burden of proof" GMs need to do something about it, is so much that in most cases, nothing happens.
"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin
#735
Nov 06 2005 at 9:48 AM
The easiest way to fix MPKing is still the most and least complicated. (Because it would require engine rewrites) Just take the examples of WoW and EQ's agro/tracking systems. I've always found it very annoying that if you run from a mob, no matter how far you run they will chase you. You can Sleep it, Deodorize yourself, and still very unlikely you'll actually lose it without abusing the water pathing bugs, which is of course a bit of an exploit.
Now, in both WoW/EQ mobs have a set radius of their spawn they will chase you around from, if you go too far they decide to return to camp (usually running faster than normal to them) and become immune to attacks to prevent agro pathing abuse. (In WoW they evade all attacks till they return home) As much as some would not like this system that other games use, it probably is in SE's best interest. Stops griefing, MPK, and wouldn't be an exploitable fashion like a few worried it would be. (The increased return speed is part of what makes that happen)
I can't be the only one that things it makes less sense for a mob to follow you across an entire zone. Logically stuff would get to a certain point where they'd be wary about it. Also, the ranges are usually decently long, so you can pull stuff to you and not think it'll break while you pull it.
Now, in both WoW/EQ mobs have a set radius of their spawn they will chase you around from, if you go too far they decide to return to camp (usually running faster than normal to them) and become immune to attacks to prevent agro pathing abuse. (In WoW they evade all attacks till they return home) As much as some would not like this system that other games use, it probably is in SE's best interest. Stops griefing, MPK, and wouldn't be an exploitable fashion like a few worried it would be. (The increased return speed is part of what makes that happen)
I can't be the only one that things it makes less sense for a mob to follow you across an entire zone. Logically stuff would get to a certain point where they'd be wary about it. Also, the ranges are usually decently long, so you can pull stuff to you and not think it'll break while you pull it.
#736
Nov 06 2005 at 9:56 AM
20 posts
Well a good idea i thought is changeing the NPCs that are in the zones into real guards that kill all monsters that get into range.
They can have like infinite damage so the zoned mobs are instantly killed and wont come agroing the people around.
You can also put more of this Guards around the map, and also in maps that dont have outposts. This NPCs can be freelance, with no need of em having a country to serve, and can also triger quests like Escort For Hire....
They can have like infinite damage so the zoned mobs are instantly killed and wont come agroing the people around.
You can also put more of this Guards around the map, and also in maps that dont have outposts. This NPCs can be freelance, with no need of em having a country to serve, and can also triger quests like Escort For Hire....
#737
Nov 06 2005 at 10:04 AM
Make aggro mobs have a radius that they will only aggro/link in based on their originally spawned in location.
If someone pulls the mobs out of that area, they will only pursue whoever originally did that. So if someone zones a train of mobs, or pulls them over to a group and warps out, etc, they will return to their spawn area before becoming aggro or linking again. Of course for things like Dynamis this could be different.
Mobs that are in this state could have a different color shade for their name to indicate it. If made unpullable until they returned except by the person/group who had hate orginally, this could also keep HNMs from going yellow when a group is still trying to fight them.
For BST pets, I would suggest an intermediary color that would distinguish a released pet that is still healing and not "full" XP from an untouched mob. While it's very annoying as a BST to have to XP around regular parties, and the expansions has been terrible in providing new places for BST to XP (to include moving mobs in patches to ruin areas for BSTs, like in Ullegrande), it would be best to remove confusion.
While BST has the potential for MPK a lot, generally I don't see them using it. Mostly the problem is gil sellers. Get them out of the game. That or (yes please) increase quested gear and all to the point where gil is not the focus.
If someone pulls the mobs out of that area, they will only pursue whoever originally did that. So if someone zones a train of mobs, or pulls them over to a group and warps out, etc, they will return to their spawn area before becoming aggro or linking again. Of course for things like Dynamis this could be different.
Mobs that are in this state could have a different color shade for their name to indicate it. If made unpullable until they returned except by the person/group who had hate orginally, this could also keep HNMs from going yellow when a group is still trying to fight them.
For BST pets, I would suggest an intermediary color that would distinguish a released pet that is still healing and not "full" XP from an untouched mob. While it's very annoying as a BST to have to XP around regular parties, and the expansions has been terrible in providing new places for BST to XP (to include moving mobs in patches to ruin areas for BSTs, like in Ullegrande), it would be best to remove confusion.
While BST has the potential for MPK a lot, generally I don't see them using it. Mostly the problem is gil sellers. Get them out of the game. That or (yes please) increase quested gear and all to the point where gil is not the focus.
#738
Nov 06 2005 at 10:12 AM
1 post
sugestion : when someone is next to a mob and a rng uses Shadowbind on it, shadowbind shouldn't take off the persons Sneak
I've nearly died when a rng did this to Aquarius, my sneak was ripped off and i bearly managed to get away
I've nearly died when a rng did this to Aquarius, my sneak was ripped off and i bearly managed to get away
#739
Nov 06 2005 at 10:52 AM
How about just taking REAL action against the people who engage in MPKing repeatedly? Or at least following up on reports that have been filed? I'm sure that even if you find a program-based way to curb MPKing, the people who did it will find another way to be obnoxious creeps who ruin the game for others, until the GMs actually *do* something about them-- something that would ideally include them being kicked out on their gilselling backsides.
Why don't you just flatout block all IPs originating in China? The game isn't supported there or marketed there, and EVERY time anyone has attempted to MPK me, it has been a gilseller. I don't know if SE doesn't want to appear contentious or whatever, but I don't understand why they just don't STOP that.
Edited, Sun Nov 6 11:04:26 2005 by Mandze
Why don't you just flatout block all IPs originating in China? The game isn't supported there or marketed there, and EVERY time anyone has attempted to MPK me, it has been a gilseller. I don't know if SE doesn't want to appear contentious or whatever, but I don't understand why they just don't STOP that.
Edited, Sun Nov 6 11:04:26 2005 by Mandze
#740
Nov 06 2005 at 11:04 AM
39 posts
Oh yea i totally want to have it, where Enemy AoE dosen't effect.. Non Combantant players that are not inside the party..
Like the mandys in Yuhutuga Jungles.. Sleep Flower.. hits everyone in its range.. sure it make sence.. but it would be nice if it only effected the party attackin it
like i dont see doin the whole thing where.. when you fight a mob you get sent into a nother deminsions like the previous FF.. cause it would cause a lot more downtime.. and well that defintlty wouldn't be to good...
like for NM's and HNM's i believe how you have em is great.. but just like i said before bout the Mandys "Sleep Powder" then that would be great if you left it out so that if it uses its AoE it dosen't hit or kill players just observing the fight
Like the mandys in Yuhutuga Jungles.. Sleep Flower.. hits everyone in its range.. sure it make sence.. but it would be nice if it only effected the party attackin it
like i dont see doin the whole thing where.. when you fight a mob you get sent into a nother deminsions like the previous FF.. cause it would cause a lot more downtime.. and well that defintlty wouldn't be to good...
like for NM's and HNM's i believe how you have em is great.. but just like i said before bout the Mandys "Sleep Powder" then that would be great if you left it out so that if it uses its AoE it dosen't hit or kill players just observing the fight
#741
Nov 06 2005 at 11:34 AM
9 posts
My suggestion is to leave the game as is. Does anyone else notice a disturbing trend? If I wanted to play World of Warcraft, I would go buy it.
I play FFXI because I enjoy the challenge. If you do not believe they are making it too easy, observe the following:
• The addition of ENMs to give incredible amounts of experience. (I abandoned Eco Quest for this reason.)
• The lowering of the maximum experience required after level 50.
• The increase in experience for killing creatures. (I can still get decent experience as a level 10 in West Ronfaure for example.)
• The addition of the experience rings.
I enjoy some of these changes, but decreasing the capabilities of the jobs is not the best way to make it more challenging.
If you must make a change to the MPK system, allow mobs to only aggro within a certain wide radius of their spawn point. However, I strongly oppose any additional changes to the game that are just going to make it easier for unskilled players to become level 75 within a short period of time before they even learn how to play their jobs.
I play FFXI because I enjoy the challenge. If you do not believe they are making it too easy, observe the following:
• The addition of ENMs to give incredible amounts of experience. (I abandoned Eco Quest for this reason.)
• The lowering of the maximum experience required after level 50.
• The increase in experience for killing creatures. (I can still get decent experience as a level 10 in West Ronfaure for example.)
• The addition of the experience rings.
I enjoy some of these changes, but decreasing the capabilities of the jobs is not the best way to make it more challenging.
If you must make a change to the MPK system, allow mobs to only aggro within a certain wide radius of their spawn point. However, I strongly oppose any additional changes to the game that are just going to make it easier for unskilled players to become level 75 within a short period of time before they even learn how to play their jobs.
#742
Nov 06 2005 at 11:57 AM
1 post
Seriously...Im not reading the 740(!!) responses that I see...But if everybody has a problem with MPK then...wtf. Its the least of our problems. If inflation and gilsellers are as bad on other servers as they are on Gilgamesh then thats what we need to worry about...not MPK. Player killing is a part of MMORPGS. If you die...Its just experience points. You can get them back :o My solution to all the whining:
Duel system. Ill admit...ive wanted to kill somebody on the game before. If you get pissed/talking crap to a person and want to back it up, duel them.
"Suggestions for changing the MPK system" What system? There is no system! Make one :) Make it so exp is not lost and an instant raise is given. Say a guy comes up and really doesnt like this warrior that keeps talking stuff to him. So he challanges him to a duel. The warrior tells his party hold on so he can fight. The warrior loses and dies, gets instantly raised...and is weakened. Being weakened is your punishment for losing and can prevent back to back dueling like crazy on the same person.
Why not?
Duel system. Ill admit...ive wanted to kill somebody on the game before. If you get pissed/talking crap to a person and want to back it up, duel them.
"Suggestions for changing the MPK system" What system? There is no system! Make one :) Make it so exp is not lost and an instant raise is given. Say a guy comes up and really doesnt like this warrior that keeps talking stuff to him. So he challanges him to a duel. The warrior tells his party hold on so he can fight. The warrior loses and dies, gets instantly raised...and is weakened. Being weakened is your punishment for losing and can prevent back to back dueling like crazy on the same person.
Why not?
#743
Nov 06 2005 at 12:03 PM
24 posts
This sounds like a good idea. I was in a party yesterday and there was this stupid BST who acualaly tried to solo Oose in the labernyth yesterday! I had it with paying the price because BSTs have no concideration for what is happening around them! I think that this is going to get me back in the game better.
My sujestion: Wait for monster to get back to spawn point is a good idea. MKP is a huge problem in this game. And make sure that monsters with AoEs will harm the PT that is fighting it, but it will not harm those who are around it and not finghting it.
My sujestion: Wait for monster to get back to spawn point is a good idea. MKP is a huge problem in this game. And make sure that monsters with AoEs will harm the PT that is fighting it, but it will not harm those who are around it and not finghting it.
#744
Nov 06 2005 at 12:47 PM
17 posts
Hello,
I dont have time to read all 15 pages however I will post my opinion on what would help remedy the situation.
Alot of the consistent mpking happens on HNM mobs because of certain types of individuals so they can sell more gil.
There is no risk or real penalty for serious mpking. If I'm a gilseller who camps serket and I mpk the other party who gets it, its no big deal if I cant come back until tomorrow. I'll just log on with one of my shihei mules and make shihei for that entire time. (Pay attention how often some people synth consumables or fish)
I propose not being so lenient on mpkers. Delete content ids or ban them for a few weeks(over night jail just doesn't cut it when mobs have 21-24h window).
I guess my point I'm trying to drive is:
In addition to getting rid of MPK, do what you can to get rid of gilsellers. Otherwise, they will just find somewhere else to infest and ruin.
Edited, Sun Nov 6 12:57:22 2005 by Binbi
I dont have time to read all 15 pages however I will post my opinion on what would help remedy the situation.
Alot of the consistent mpking happens on HNM mobs because of certain types of individuals so they can sell more gil.
There is no risk or real penalty for serious mpking. If I'm a gilseller who camps serket and I mpk the other party who gets it, its no big deal if I cant come back until tomorrow. I'll just log on with one of my shihei mules and make shihei for that entire time. (Pay attention how often some people synth consumables or fish)
I propose not being so lenient on mpkers. Delete content ids or ban them for a few weeks(over night jail just doesn't cut it when mobs have 21-24h window).
I guess my point I'm trying to drive is:
In addition to getting rid of MPK, do what you can to get rid of gilsellers. Otherwise, they will just find somewhere else to infest and ruin.
Edited, Sun Nov 6 12:57:22 2005 by Binbi
#745
Nov 06 2005 at 1:12 PM
I dont think the system needs to be changed. The problem is a lot of the items people need are only gotten through NM fights. All items in the game should have a way to be obtained from KSNM, BCNM,ENM, or some type of controled battlefield. A good step was made with some of the more recent updates. If this was done I think you would elminate 95 percent of MPK.
The other 4% or less is from people walking on other peoples camps. I think some good strides have already been made by making more xp areas.
Maybe 1% are problably bst release strong pets that cause havoc returning to there spawn area. This could easily be fixed by the suggestion to have it not aggro till it returns to that point.
The other 4% or less is from people walking on other peoples camps. I think some good strides have already been made by making more xp areas.
Maybe 1% are problably bst release strong pets that cause havoc returning to there spawn area. This could easily be fixed by the suggestion to have it not aggro till it returns to that point.
#746
Nov 06 2005 at 1:14 PM
Suggestion: Fix Bind.
It's not useful as a BLM or RDM because:
a) you can accidentally kill other people with it, and
b) it's got a random (i.e. unreliable) duration.
I have no problem with b), that makes the game more challenging. But a) prevents me from using it when there's other people nearby, which is sort of a problem in a Massively Multiplayer game. I don't see why mobs should attack someone they have no hate for after I've done 2k damage to them.
It's not useful as a BLM or RDM because:
a) you can accidentally kill other people with it, and
b) it's got a random (i.e. unreliable) duration.
I have no problem with b), that makes the game more challenging. But a) prevents me from using it when there's other people nearby, which is sort of a problem in a Massively Multiplayer game. I don't see why mobs should attack someone they have no hate for after I've done 2k damage to them.
#747
Nov 06 2005 at 1:58 PM
People wont simply MPK for the fun of it in most cases, there has to be an underlying reason for it. When one of the stronger notorious monster spawns in most cases there are 4-5 other linkshells at its location and prepared to fight. Chances are they spent hours camping it because the spawn conditions remain random to a certain extent. My suggestion is that you look at a person's reason to MPK as well as modify certain errors which I’m sure occur.
There is a near unlimited demand for 'the best' gear, but the supply is so low. It’s simply not reasonable to assume that there are still only one or two groups of people out at hyper notorious monsters day after day. When someone else gets the claim on the monster it’s hard to just be happy for them. If a group continues to get the claim day, after day, after day, jealousy will be sparked in even the most reasonable people, some may even decided they need to MPK to have their chance at the monster. This is part of the reason i think forced spawn monsters were the best change made so far in this game. Suggestion: Make monsters more available to kill. Make the items they drop, that cannot be sold, more probable to obtain. Make more items EXclusive
A massive amount of frustration if fueled by a player's zeal. It is not a mystery who the persons who engage in RMT are on my server. They monopolize, steal, and ruin our economy. Hyperinflation on these items is just a small part though. A person has a desire to have good gear, there is a sense of accomplishment that comes with it, so when these items they want can no longer be obtained by gil exchange (due to a lack of their own funds beating the inflation), or by hunting, a person can be forced to either MPK or purchase the items or gil from these people who engage in RMT. The times they do claim it, the item they seek will not drop. Suggestion: Have an alternative way for a person to obtain any item. If there is another way, there will be less MPK.
Players are currently able to claim a monster being fought when the name becomes yellow for a fraction of a second. The persons previously fighting it will be killed if the new player’s presence is not made painfully aware to the monster. When the first group is dead, they will seek to right this wrong, and a GM currently has no power to act when a mob is taken in this way. They will likely MPK if they cannot steal it back, and they are the ones punished if a GM is called. Suggestion: A monster should not go unclaimed while a person is fighting it, regardless of death, or being dropped from a party with hate.
Currently if a Monk class player joins a Kirin fight to use their Chi-blast ability, and leaves the fight, Kirin will remain red for them, not in a party, and it will continue to attack other persons until the Monk has either been killed, or hit enough that Kirin no longer attacks him. The monster regains health, and people will continue to die. Suggestion: Claim of the monster should remain with the greatest number of people engaged, not the person with dominant 'hate'.
I know I dont speak for everyone, but these are among the changes I would like to see available, and preferably soon.
Thank you for your time.
There is a near unlimited demand for 'the best' gear, but the supply is so low. It’s simply not reasonable to assume that there are still only one or two groups of people out at hyper notorious monsters day after day. When someone else gets the claim on the monster it’s hard to just be happy for them. If a group continues to get the claim day, after day, after day, jealousy will be sparked in even the most reasonable people, some may even decided they need to MPK to have their chance at the monster. This is part of the reason i think forced spawn monsters were the best change made so far in this game. Suggestion: Make monsters more available to kill. Make the items they drop, that cannot be sold, more probable to obtain. Make more items EXclusive
A massive amount of frustration if fueled by a player's zeal. It is not a mystery who the persons who engage in RMT are on my server. They monopolize, steal, and ruin our economy. Hyperinflation on these items is just a small part though. A person has a desire to have good gear, there is a sense of accomplishment that comes with it, so when these items they want can no longer be obtained by gil exchange (due to a lack of their own funds beating the inflation), or by hunting, a person can be forced to either MPK or purchase the items or gil from these people who engage in RMT. The times they do claim it, the item they seek will not drop. Suggestion: Have an alternative way for a person to obtain any item. If there is another way, there will be less MPK.
Players are currently able to claim a monster being fought when the name becomes yellow for a fraction of a second. The persons previously fighting it will be killed if the new player’s presence is not made painfully aware to the monster. When the first group is dead, they will seek to right this wrong, and a GM currently has no power to act when a mob is taken in this way. They will likely MPK if they cannot steal it back, and they are the ones punished if a GM is called. Suggestion: A monster should not go unclaimed while a person is fighting it, regardless of death, or being dropped from a party with hate.
Currently if a Monk class player joins a Kirin fight to use their Chi-blast ability, and leaves the fight, Kirin will remain red for them, not in a party, and it will continue to attack other persons until the Monk has either been killed, or hit enough that Kirin no longer attacks him. The monster regains health, and people will continue to die. Suggestion: Claim of the monster should remain with the greatest number of people engaged, not the person with dominant 'hate'.
I know I dont speak for everyone, but these are among the changes I would like to see available, and preferably soon.
Thank you for your time.
#748
Nov 06 2005 at 2:26 PM
1 post
I personally have never been MPKed because I have yet to go up against the major NMs and bosses or farm specific NMs like Leaping Lizzy or Valkurm Emperor, but like most people I have seen serious problems with trains in areas like Yhoator Jungle and Garlaige Citadel.
I like the idea posted earlier about the monster "zoning" with the person they are chasing and re-spawning shortly afterwards. However, that's not going to stop MPKers. All a MPKer has to do is just let themselves die or Warp away before reaching the zone. Then the mobs are still there and still able to aggro onto anyone standing nearby. Also it won't completely save people in areas like Garlaige or Yhoator either, because if the person dies before they reach the zone, then again, the mobs aren't going to disappear and they're free to aggro anything nearby.
Suggestion:
I'd like to see SE create an incentive to "Call for Help". Allow for XP gains if you assist in a Call for Help (CfH), hell, maybe eliminate or reduce XP penalties if you die after calling for help or participate in a CfH (yes, I know this might cause people to expoit this to never lose XP. I don't have the solution for that off-hand). And make a monster respawn quicker if it's killed by a CfH. This would help in areas like Yhoator where parties scatter like crazy for ONE DAMN GOBLIN at the zone. Obviously this probably won't help in zones with the HNMs, but it would be nice to make CfH more useful.
And another thing I've noticed in Yhoator, maybe it would be nice if certain mobs wouldn't link with Beastmen pets? i.e. Death Wasps linking to Goblin's Bee? The leeches in Qufim linking with Gigas' Leech? Just a thought.
Suggestion:
As for NMs themselves, couldn't we just end MPKs and ridiculous farming there by forcing popular NMs to spawn in separate battlefields? I think someone suggested making the popular NMs force-pops where you have to trade a specific item, and I think that makes sense too.
Or perhaps it could be setup so that if a person fights a popular NM, they can't fight it again for a certain amount of time? Win or lose, doesn't matter. Maybe they have to wait 24 hours, although my preference would be they can't do it again until the next conquest period.
Suggestion:
And like someone said, the bottom line is that the gilsellers have to be stopped outside the game too. Find these gilselling sites and find a way to shut them down. The only other suggestion I can give is to put a limit on prices in the AH. Max 1 mil for non-rare, non-EX or something, I don't know. But you reduce the need for extravagent levels of gil, you reduce the need for gilsellers.
I like the idea posted earlier about the monster "zoning" with the person they are chasing and re-spawning shortly afterwards. However, that's not going to stop MPKers. All a MPKer has to do is just let themselves die or Warp away before reaching the zone. Then the mobs are still there and still able to aggro onto anyone standing nearby. Also it won't completely save people in areas like Garlaige or Yhoator either, because if the person dies before they reach the zone, then again, the mobs aren't going to disappear and they're free to aggro anything nearby.
Suggestion:
I'd like to see SE create an incentive to "Call for Help". Allow for XP gains if you assist in a Call for Help (CfH), hell, maybe eliminate or reduce XP penalties if you die after calling for help or participate in a CfH (yes, I know this might cause people to expoit this to never lose XP. I don't have the solution for that off-hand). And make a monster respawn quicker if it's killed by a CfH. This would help in areas like Yhoator where parties scatter like crazy for ONE DAMN GOBLIN at the zone. Obviously this probably won't help in zones with the HNMs, but it would be nice to make CfH more useful.
And another thing I've noticed in Yhoator, maybe it would be nice if certain mobs wouldn't link with Beastmen pets? i.e. Death Wasps linking to Goblin's Bee? The leeches in Qufim linking with Gigas' Leech? Just a thought.
Suggestion:
As for NMs themselves, couldn't we just end MPKs and ridiculous farming there by forcing popular NMs to spawn in separate battlefields? I think someone suggested making the popular NMs force-pops where you have to trade a specific item, and I think that makes sense too.
Or perhaps it could be setup so that if a person fights a popular NM, they can't fight it again for a certain amount of time? Win or lose, doesn't matter. Maybe they have to wait 24 hours, although my preference would be they can't do it again until the next conquest period.
Suggestion:
And like someone said, the bottom line is that the gilsellers have to be stopped outside the game too. Find these gilselling sites and find a way to shut them down. The only other suggestion I can give is to put a limit on prices in the AH. Max 1 mil for non-rare, non-EX or something, I don't know. But you reduce the need for extravagent levels of gil, you reduce the need for gilsellers.
#749
Nov 06 2005 at 3:20 PM
You know, everquest had a way to deal with this. The "zone guard" is actually programmed to fight and kill a trained monster. Unlike ours, who just stand there.
#750
Nov 06 2005 at 4:20 PM
6 posts
First, thank you for being proactive when trying to listen to real gamers suggestions. It is quite nice.
Suggestion: I think everyone has beaten to death the idea of changing the bind/aggro system. It definitely needs to be fixed so that bound mobs will only attack those in party of the "binder".
Suggestion: MPKers. The casual "MPK" of a zoned mob on an exp party i think is not enough to warrant permanent ban from the game. I think most players have been in a situation where you've unfortunately had to zone a mob on a party (and generally feel bad when doing so). However, we have all experienced other players who generally don't care when they train the slow high level mobs on your party. Those players could use a trip to the GM jail. For gross MPK train negligence, such as zoning skeles on a party killing amikiri (which i have had the fun of experiencing after our linkshell had been fighting a valiant fight for more than an hour and got MPKed by the chinese gilsellers), those actions deserve a ban from the game.
Suggestion: Don't change the current link system. I like it just how it is. It does add a dimension to the game. In my mind, if you change the way mobs link in certain areas, there is no skill in exping. Why not just make a monster arena where parties could exp if there is no danger in pulling? lol
Suggestion: Don't change the mobs to a "reset back to home type position before they aggro type thing". I don't think that solves anything. That, to me, seems like a backwards way to fix the problem of how other players who are so inconsiderate to zone everything even though it completely inconveniences other gamers. As for a solution? Honestly, I don't know.
Suggestion: I think everyone has beaten to death the idea of changing the bind/aggro system. It definitely needs to be fixed so that bound mobs will only attack those in party of the "binder".
Suggestion: MPKers. The casual "MPK" of a zoned mob on an exp party i think is not enough to warrant permanent ban from the game. I think most players have been in a situation where you've unfortunately had to zone a mob on a party (and generally feel bad when doing so). However, we have all experienced other players who generally don't care when they train the slow high level mobs on your party. Those players could use a trip to the GM jail. For gross MPK train negligence, such as zoning skeles on a party killing amikiri (which i have had the fun of experiencing after our linkshell had been fighting a valiant fight for more than an hour and got MPKed by the chinese gilsellers), those actions deserve a ban from the game.
Suggestion: Don't change the current link system. I like it just how it is. It does add a dimension to the game. In my mind, if you change the way mobs link in certain areas, there is no skill in exping. Why not just make a monster arena where parties could exp if there is no danger in pulling? lol
Suggestion: Don't change the mobs to a "reset back to home type position before they aggro type thing". I don't think that solves anything. That, to me, seems like a backwards way to fix the problem of how other players who are so inconsiderate to zone everything even though it completely inconveniences other gamers. As for a solution? Honestly, I don't know.
#751
Nov 06 2005 at 4:34 PM
first off if there wasent botting i can promise you MPK's would be 80-90% less at HNM's like fafnir/nidhogg fix mr.argus BS and other known bots or make it spawnable and MPK rate goes down.
You cannot post in a locked topic!
Recent Visitors: 688
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (688)
- Forums
- Final Fantasy XI
- General Discussion
- Suggestions for changing the MPK system
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC