Suggestions for changing the MPK systemFollow

Suggestion: Putting the name of the person who claims a mob next to the mob's name (like they do with wyverns and npcs).

Having someone's name next to mob would be very nice. There will really be no end to MPKing, but this way we could at least report who did it. Having your name plastered all over a train would definitely be a deterrent to MPKing. And for those clever MPKers who disclaim the mob before running off, have mob and any links keep the name of player until a certain amount of time after hate is lost.

Edited for format.

Edited, Wed Nov 9 23:41:19 2005 by Alliax

Oh I would so love to see this implemented for monsters in all zones.

Would mean when I go to Kazham I wouldn't have to endure several deaths from Goblin trains caused by other people.
When I go to Garliage I can actually exp rather than spend half the time waiting for a train of bats to go back to their spawn points.
I wont be immediatly slaughtered by a train of Soldier Crawlers as soon as I load into Crawlers Nest.

List goes on and on, and this solution would solve so so many problems.

This would make the game easier only in the sence that now the player has more control over the fate of his character than players outside of his party does.

Edited, Tue Nov 8 00:31:27 2005 by ncleppe

Retorts and Suggestions:
I didn't read all of these... but I read a fair share; and a fair chunk seem to be related with linking. I think linking is completely fine as it is now. people need to pay attention to whats gonig on. If you see someone run by you with a bunch of mobs on their back, those mobs are coming back after he either (a) zones, or (b) dies. Second off, as far as taking damage form other parties mobs, thats also part of paying attention. If the enemies your parties are fighting have AOEs, then dont stick so close together. It's things like these which, IMO, are little details that need to be left in the game; as it increases peoples need to actively play smart. I cant remember the last time a zoned train killed me (solo or in party). Pay attention and play smart and you and your party should have no trouble. And as far as linked mobs in battles, thats part of the risk involved; its part of the danger of some areas, and definately part of the fun. Links and aggros make things intresting, learn how to live through it instead of how to complain about it and you'll appreciate it more.

Also, call me crazy, but the risky chance of links, deaths, and aggros; imo helps build community. WTF? Think about it socially, its a problem we all have to deal with, thus often times we will group together to deal with it. My party last night was working alongside a solo high level bst. At first I was a little ticked because he was providing more competition than if there were 2 other parties in the area. However, after we had helped each other with link control throughout the party's duration I had a much higher opinion of him. Also, links and aggros allow people to help each other in attempt to save the one attacked. Teamwork (even ammong non-grouped parties/players) needs to be promoted, not removed. If no one ever has to help another, FFXI will not be near as friendly(although _some_ people arn't friendly >.>). And this will reduce peoples want to play if a lack of teamwork is promoted, as people will become more self centered and rude.

The Bind Trick does seem a bit off though, that is if in fact the nearest player can _not_ attack the mob (assuming they are not partying together).

Edited, Wed Nov 9 18:20:44 2005 by avanent

Suggestion if MPK'ing is mainly caused by frustration over many people camping NM's ect and not being able to get the drop straight off, then why not make the drop rate 100% as said above and make it so that once claimed that person cannot claim that NM again in that day, therefore giving everyone else a chance to have a go.

I also think that Lilragha's suggestion above is a good one.

Edited, Tue Nov 8 05:14:40 2005 by Redzebrass

Suggestion:

Ban some gilsellers. Every server has at least 2 or 3 groups that EVERYONE knows are gilsellers... (Sylph: Chest, Backhame, Sylone though Sylsix... I mean... c'mon.)

That would make the world a lot better then just changing every monsters behaviour.

ok...are some of these responses serious?


"make is so mobs dont link"

^^not to be rude, but that would be ridiculous...as much as it sucks, it also adds a different element to the game..being that you have to be skilled and/or watch where/when you pull something

basically, if SE does all of these things, this game is going to get REALLY boring...pull a mob...hit it...it dies...repeat...not having to worry about ANYTHING else...do you realize how boring that would be if SE completely nerfed this too?

MPK sucks, buts always been part of MMORPG...the people that do it are airheads and are dealt with accordingly...

i think the MPK system is fine the way it is...and if we are going to get on the topic of gilsellers...i think SE should start cracking down on them, because its obvious who they are...

they should also crack down on the people that actually buy the gil...not nerf an already good game so its completely repetative

Ok, I'd like to say: Noble effort, thank you for showing interest in the opinions of the players.

That said, I'd like to put forth my opinion on this particular subject.

I personally beleive that we as the players have the ultimate control concerning the mpk system. How? We have the ability to see the players who behave in this manner and use the game function /blist add <nameofjerk> appropriately, as well as pass this information on to friends and ls members. I personally use this tactic whenever appropriate, and if others felt and behaved in the same manner I do, eventually mpk'ers (even >41 rdm)would not be able to get a pt and would either stagnate or leave the game out of boredom.

Good strategy? No.

Primarily because the last several (as far back as I can remember) times I've been mpk'ed, has been by KNOWN (funny that we know about them and SE doesn't) gilsellers protecting their territory. I have reported this, friends and ls members who have tried for the same mobs have reported this, yet I can sit there for several hours at a time watching the same two characters perform the exact same set of motions camping the exact same mob, until I interfere by claiming it. Then... MPK.

Not much we as players can do when it comes to that, invariably these individuals have leveled to the point where they are within linkshells or unorganized groups of gilsellers (who only make the basest pretense of concealing their identity)so any boycott of them is meaningless.

I'm not sure where the confusion is on the identity of these individuals, the overwhelming majority of them have been at or around the same lvl since I started the game, and in /sea all invariably show up in the same zone.

The most blatant case has been in the same room in Castle Ostroja since I snuck through there with prism powder following a "high level" (65) whm 6 months ago to complete that branch of the "magicite" rank mission.


It staggers me to consider that lvl 24 gear that was maybe 250k when I started, escalated in price until it approached 2 million gil and SE had to make it Rare/ex to keep the inflation under some semblance of control.

And you would rather start a discussion on MPK...

How about more focus on enforcing ToS on the individuals that we the players cannot have effect on before we start talking about yet another patch, another potential gimp in gameplay.



And one more thing:



Would be true if the drop wasn't monopolized by the same individual(s) dictating price day after day, drop after drop. The supply and demand model is only valid when not based on monopoly or near monopoly.



You have got to be kidding... Shake the economy? most of the NM's that gilsellers compete most strongly for are well under 65. And since when is a piece of lvl 24-36 gear going for 5 mil reasonable? It's designed for low lvl players, who don't have 5 mil unless they paid real life cash for it.

And too easy for endgame players??? I'm sorry, does having the price of an item reflect the lvl it's designed for invalidate the need for hnmls/god/sky/dynamis ls? How do enkelados bracers help a lvl 75 player, how do leaping boots help? I can see serket to an extent, but even if you get the claim from the gilsellers I'd hardly call that an easy fight. Your average DRK swaps out his sniper rings for STR rings in the high 60's because of the oh so reasonably priced thick gear. All I see your argument doing is hurting mages that take their job seriously, or rookie players who haven't hit 75 at least once. and "too easy" is freaking insulting. I'd rather get on to god battles, sea access and dynamis than farm for days/weeks or struggle to take NM's from gilsellers. There is enough to do in this game without the "challenge" of trying to pay exhorbitant fees for artificially inflated items.


In short, and in conclusion, yes I do appreciate the gesture of support on the part of SE to integrate our interests and suggestions into the game. No I do not believe that this battle is well or appropriately chosen.

Hello Ahkore:) and everyone;)
Hello all:) /wave********************************
This is Laftis from TheFishingGuild linkshell;)

MPK things in this game remind me of the White Bunny in Asheron Call:)
in Asheron call i remember player got highest level cap around hmm 73? and the white bunny is level 666.
One guy drag the bunny and run like hell into town:) when the white bunny is in town:) people start /checking him;) one you /check the bunny:) he will chase you to kill:)
and that bunny can clean up the whole town every quick;) including newplayer just arrived;)

Monster aggoed and chasing player/s/links
1=only chase to kill the players or the party the player is in that aggoed it "ONLY".

2=disable the capable of the chasing monsters and his linking family to harm others players in any way, when they are out of the 1st aggo monster limited point. untill they go back to their original spawning point. This including of the disable the capable of the monster/link from aggos other players outside of the aggoed group.

3=disable other players that outside of the player that being chased or party that being chased from helping in anyway unless the player make the call for /help. This when /help request there will be nothing to loot)

4=when the player or party call for help. Any outside player jump in to help in anyway (hitting the monsters, healing the player or party that aggoed by the mosnter) will be add the that monsters to kills list.

5=all monster involed in the links can't not harm outsider in anyway. When the 1st monster aggo the player. We can use his limit aggo space to set the point. After the 1st monster chase the player outside of its limited where it first sight the player. It will have a flag up and any other monsters start to link to the 1st one will have to fall under the
1st monster limited. So this way other people that are outside of the 1st aggo monster limited won't get jump/kill/rape/for other players actions. When the monster finish the chased they will be safely return to their own original spawn point. Disable all players that are outside of the aggoed group from attacking monsters when the monsters are returning to their spawn points. Until the monster reach their own limited/spawn point then they can go back to their own aggo limited again. If this can be done alot of us will be happy and not to worry much about MPK while we are fishing/mining/resting/farming/camping. We know we are safe where we fish/camp/mine/rest/AFK/etc. according to our own level with or without /sneak/invisible but we can't accept a bunch of imposible to gauge monsters surrounding us for 3 miles. Thankyou:) please fix the problems:) many thank;)

Laftis:)
FishOn;)

Lol you don't seem to understand what I am saying at all. IF you have what 3 jobs to 75 and all your merits spent your not going to be EXPing much with them are you? No just dynamis and HNMs etc, so if all the lvl 20ish gear is like 10k and your leveling your 4th job to 75 what is the fun if you just rush it to 75 also because at that point 10k is like 10 gil to you and you'll be there again in no time you'll have nothing to work for just jet through it. Also I never said 5m for an item is reasonable however it was an example if prices of armor goes down and ability to farm 5m items goes up whats the point?? I know some of this is exagerated but think about it... When leaping boots were 150k besides the lvl 7s who had no subjob who really didn't have it?



Um, also about that i'm a RDM as my main job and i've had my JSE etc since lvl 64 got penitents rope etc and even with the inlfation got it 8 lvls early same for errant no challenge at all in earning our end game stuff as is if its 50k instead of 1.5m every mage will be walking around with it... what'll be the point? Sure its good armor but I think end game you should have to actually work to earn it you just want it all easy that'll make the game boring in the end. Also I got my first AFv2 when I was lvl 65 and thats about as hard as it gets for armor... along with the abjuration armors (crimson zenith). I say if you want things easy throw in some nice ra/ex quests you can work for encourage quest work for more then fame to get a 300k scroll that you might even just sell.

Also another thing I think for certain mobs the ra/ex drops is good however with leaping lizzy I noticed it became way more camped, the boots that were left non ra/ex went way up, demand for them increased due to the over camp of LL from honest players, thus the feeling people needed gil went up the boots climbed to like 1.6m at one point after this update and months later... It is still camped by like 7 people at a time though im 2/2 on the ra/ex boots I think if stuff like that held up people would clear out faster so maybe its the drop rates more then the drops.

Edited, Tue Nov 8 10:55:19 2005 by arkangelthalos

I for one agree with a great many of the suggestions (though I have not read the whole thread), however, I have my own twist on the ideas presented.

Suggestion: Remove the bind aggro. It's just silly. I'm not going to punch some innocent bystander right next to me if someone is taunting me from where I can't reach them. If anything, I'm going to be even more ticked off. So, instead of bound monsters aggroing the person closest to them, I propose that if one binds a mob, and it has no way of attacking back (i.e. it's a non-magical, non-RNG mob, and the binder is out of range) the hate level should steadily increase. So if a BLM decides to bind an Orcish Fodder and run out of range, the BLM's hate level would slowly, but steadily, grow larger and larger.

Suggestion: Don't let mobs aggro outside of a certain point. If I'm not mistaken, something like this happened with Marchelute, but I'm not sure. At any rate, to make this more realistic, if there are no player's on the mob's hate list, the mob's movement speed will increase, and the mob will not stop for breaks until it reaches it's "patrol area." This can be interpreted as "My nest is unattended" or "The warchief won't be happy if I'm not on patrol." and they double-time it to get back. This is a lot more realistic than "Every mob can teleport" and has the same desired effect.

Suggestion: For Beastmasters, make it so that when a pet is released via Leave, the ex-pet will not aggro or link, and will be unable to be attacked in any way (except Charm) for a set amount of time, and will wear off either after this time limit has past, or the BST has used Leave on another pet. This not only prevents dropping pets onto parties for MPK purposes (unless a party stands around this monster for the whole time limit), but it also prevents people from stealing Beastmaster swapped pets so that they get killed by their prey. (which, as it seems to me, is just another method of MPK.)

Suggestion: For HNMs and other highly fought over NMs(I'm thinking Serket and similar mobs mostly.) make it so that some of these mobs exude some kind of "intimidation aura" (perhaps about double the radius of an AOE?) and other mobs will not dare come close. Thus, if someone tried to train something into, say, Serket's area, the monsters would be so afraid that they'd have a complete hatelist wipe, and will path back to their spawn area (subject to the same ideas in my second suggestion). Of course, some mob types may not be subject to this (i.e. the undead inside the Vrtra room) but others would. While this would seem somewhat redundant, it would prevent, for example, fighting bombs next to a group fighting Serket so it'll self-destruct and wipe the party. Plus, the more safety precautions, the better.

Well, I hope you take my, and everyone's, ideas into consideration. Thank you very much for letting us know that you truly do understand the gravity of such situatiosn ^^.

Ok there was that idea that makes the MOB zone with the zoner that sound really good I honestly agree with that.

City of Heros have this thing called exemploring let me explain. This allow you to equal your lvl to the person you exemplore, now im not 100% on how this works in CoH but I have a way to apply this to this game.
1) Higher lvl people will lose all spells abilities and traits that according to the lvl of the person they exemplore. However they will not lose there merit point bonuses, and also the armor you worked so hard to earn will still be worn as well.
2) Lower lvl peoples stat such as str, agl, dex will be boosted and there abilities will work at the lvl that they are boosted too. However they will not get any of the higher lvl skills and or traits, and also you can not wear higher lvl armor.
3) The higher lvls will however take a xp cut for being so souped up for that lvl, example if you are 30 lvls higher lvls higher than the person you exemplore you (not the pt)will take 30% xp cut on all xp. Lower lvl people will take half the XP cut the higher lvl take.
4) In the event you die youll lose XP according to the lvl you currently are. A lvl 75 that drops to lvl 45 dies they will lose 400-600 xp but a 45 dies that was boosted to lvl 75 will lose lvl 75 XP like 2-4k (which would really really suck).

Benefits to this is that this will not be alot easier to find XP PT members such as tanks, healers, nukers and generaly alot easier to get XP period. I also have another idea that adds on this to help people make more money, which mean it can help the MPK problem

1) Like hihger lvl people can switch between merit and XP, why not switch it to conquest points. Ive many times used my conquest points to make money wen I was low on cash. If one was to switch to CP youll get 15-25% of the total XP you would get (example you get 200xp =30-50cp). But you have to fight the same type of MOBs EPs to ITs you cant go fight too weaks and get CP. Now this may sound like alot but this would have no effect from chaining, but you can get CP alot faster makin it easier to get the 24k CP needed to get some armor or use it to buy and sell those items.

Why not make it so a player can't change zones if a mob is attacking him? Sort of like how u can't trade items if a mob is attacking you.

That way anyone who trains a mob to the zone won't be able to enter the zone until he kills all the mobs he trained or he dies. Either way it will give the innocent parties in the vicinity time to take evasive action.

Also if a mob does kill a player trying to enter a zone or fleeing make it so it can't aggroe another player for 10-15 seconds (maybe the mob does some sort of victory dance or says, "I pwn you." and laughs, to give parties ample time to take evasive action.

Regarding Bind
*If a Monster carries no enmity toward PlayerA, why would it attack PlayerA if PlayerB decides to Bind the Monster next to PlayerA?

Regarding Monster Aggression
If Monsters aggro to players, we can assume its for one the following reasons (although there could be more)
a. Territorial - Players are seen as a threat to the monster's area and a competition for meager resources. The Monster will either K.O. the player or chase him away.
b. Hunting - Players are seen as a meal. After a hearty Galka or a few tasty Tarutaru's, the monster isn't as aggressive anymore. The monster will leave once he's satisfied.
c. Sentinel - The Monster is tasked with a duty to patrol/guard a specific area. Players have breached security and must be KO'd or chased away.
d. Psychopathic - The Monster thrives on death and wanton destruction.

Why would a monster chase away a player for the entire length of the zone, unless it was either hunting or it was a psychopathic killer. For the other cases the Monster's interest in the Player should not be so great, as to abandon the reason it aggrod the player (i.e. it wants to protect its spot more than it wants to chase the player).

Would a guard recklessly abandon his post to chase an intruder across the entire length of a zone? Would it be reasonable to chase a player across an entire zone for mere trespassing? Would the need to give chase to a single intruder ever exceed the need to protect against all other intruders? Why would a Monster chase one player away so far, that it could no function to deter other threats to its area?

Once a Monster has deterred an intruder (not necessarily forcing him to zone), why wouldn't it go back to protecting its area? Why would a Monster continue to eat, once it is full?

Why wouldn't the Monster IMMEDIATELY go back to protecting its area?


It might be useful to allow the use of items that prevent aggro of mobs that might normally aggro. The use of scents to appear non-threatening or very threatening would add some interesting possibilities (although the more threatening you are, the more likely monsters that are incredibly threatening may appear). This also migh suggest that a level 1 WHM could go by without any aggro, whereas a level 50 WAR could not.

As far as HNM's...
Why not make it so that if a player does call for help, the HNM will still drop the loot. The only difference is that anyone in the zone at the time may lot on the drop. A feature might need to be implemented to prevent just anyone from claiming and calling for help.