Suggestion: Please take great care when using a forum like this to make changes to the game. Yes, there are good ideas that have been reiterated several times throughout the thread, but there are also many ideas that while popular could greatly affect the whole game, not just MPK scenarios. Also, there are ideas that will harm a select group of players. I know beastmaster is not the most chosen job in the game, but there are many players that greatly enjoy the job. Post-35, one thing beastmasters rely on is being able to release thier pets and use them again. If those pets were to run away at double-speed, disappear and return to their spawn point, or god forbid, as at least one poster suggested, aggro the beastmaster, this could greatly impede what is already a demanding, but satisfying job. I understand that there are some malicious beastmasters, as there are in other jobs, but most never intentionally drop pets onto other players. The type of malicious MPK that seems to cause the most grief (and this thread IS about MPK, not unintentional trains when people run for their lives, or pulls gone wrong) revolves almost entirely around HNMs and parties trying to get the drop for themselves. Please take care that the balance of the other 90% of the game is not upset over this issue. And, Ahkore, we do appreciate you stopping in to solicit our feedback on this issue. Thank you.
Note to Gromit: I did see your suggestion for bst pets, it's cool that you mentioned a possible solution. I see your bst is 46, so you do know what's going on. I was trying to think about how it would work out though, and I keep coming up with my backup pet reaching full health and disappearing just when I need it most, or alot more pet swaps than I'm used to to keep em both hurt all the time, lol.
Edited, Fri Nov 11 07:11:58 2005 by Skooj
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Suggestions for changing the MPK systemFollow
#928
Nov 11 2005 at 7:26 AM
1 post
You know the problem with MPK is mostly from HNM and NM camping areas, and most MPKers are Gilsellers. Why not actually get to the root of the problem and remove the gilsellers. This is a suggestion I have to get rid of gilsellers. Why not make all NM drops 100% drop rate, but at the same time, make it so it will only drop for said person once every 100 days or something of that nature. I am sure it would make the game run much smoother and you will see greatly reduced prices on NON-synthed NM drops. I am not including BCNM drops, just camped NM's and HNM's. I am sure there is a flaw to this logic but atm I dont see what it would be. Post replies to this if you do. Thank You.
#929
Nov 11 2005 at 8:16 AM
The only time it should be legal to claim a NM after someone else attacks it is if the party wipes out and its hp returns to 100%.
Last night I had a NM stolen from me and my BST partner when we swapped pets. I really strongly feel stealing NMs should be a suspendable offense.
My partner wanted to MPK the thief last night, but I said no because that would make us no better. But to be completely honest, I would have loved to. I didn't because I respect the rules, but I really wanted to because it feels like the GMs don't hand out just punishments. When you call a GM, they pretty much say "I'm sorry this happened" and nothing serious happens to the thief. There is this feeling that players have to take justice into their own hands becuase GMs dont. If my night gets ruined, the NM thief or thieves should have a lousy night too. Mandatory 24 hour temp ban + loss of items that dropped, at least.
I don't like the "no aggro until mob gets back to spawn point" - I really should, because it would make BST a MUCH easier job to play, no worry about pet aggro when releasing to kill the mob at the end, etc.
Last night I had a NM stolen from me and my BST partner when we swapped pets. I really strongly feel stealing NMs should be a suspendable offense.
My partner wanted to MPK the thief last night, but I said no because that would make us no better. But to be completely honest, I would have loved to. I didn't because I respect the rules, but I really wanted to because it feels like the GMs don't hand out just punishments. When you call a GM, they pretty much say "I'm sorry this happened" and nothing serious happens to the thief. There is this feeling that players have to take justice into their own hands becuase GMs dont. If my night gets ruined, the NM thief or thieves should have a lousy night too. Mandatory 24 hour temp ban + loss of items that dropped, at least.
I don't like the "no aggro until mob gets back to spawn point" - I really should, because it would make BST a MUCH easier job to play, no worry about pet aggro when releasing to kill the mob at the end, etc.
#930
Nov 11 2005 at 8:39 AM
1 post
SUGGESTION: !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If SE really wants to help out with this game, hire some people to play... YES HIRE! Get out your game testers and all that stuff you got hidden in your game rooms and put them to work! The best way to improve this game is to have first-hand direct knowledge of it. Having us complain is great and all, but not everything of importance (I'm assuming) will be weeded out. Or if SE is not happy about spending money, have an out-of-game recruit program for long time players that have a lot of input to give... Give the players selected a mark of superiority, like a tag over the head or something. No character enhancing crap, just the ability to talk directly to GMs if there so happens to be a problem/bug evident(and as I read in a post, a set amount of gil to reward those who care). All in all, just get more involved, in-game, somehow. Patches are being based off of complaints and data. That's not enough apparently. You need people playing FFXI saying to themselves "How could this particular situation be changed to flow smooth without error?". I'm rambling... but who cares? SE, bottom line, needs to start caring about the game as much as the players do. I'm sure SE makes enough money off FFXI to put in a little more effort.
If SE really wants to help out with this game, hire some people to play... YES HIRE! Get out your game testers and all that stuff you got hidden in your game rooms and put them to work! The best way to improve this game is to have first-hand direct knowledge of it. Having us complain is great and all, but not everything of importance (I'm assuming) will be weeded out. Or if SE is not happy about spending money, have an out-of-game recruit program for long time players that have a lot of input to give... Give the players selected a mark of superiority, like a tag over the head or something. No character enhancing crap, just the ability to talk directly to GMs if there so happens to be a problem/bug evident(and as I read in a post, a set amount of gil to reward those who care). All in all, just get more involved, in-game, somehow. Patches are being based off of complaints and data. That's not enough apparently. You need people playing FFXI saying to themselves "How could this particular situation be changed to flow smooth without error?". I'm rambling... but who cares? SE, bottom line, needs to start caring about the game as much as the players do. I'm sure SE makes enough money off FFXI to put in a little more effort.
#931
Nov 11 2005 at 11:03 AM
Don't let people get hate or aggro from more than 4 or so mobs.
#932
Nov 11 2005 at 12:15 PM
Quote:
Quote:2. Station a GM at every spawn point of highly sought after NM's (Simurgh, Roc, Serket, KB, Kirin, etc.) Give them the power to take control of situations like that and handle the linked monsters on their own.
I agree with this sediment. MPKs happen way too often at these NMs, and in my experiences EXPing in the Citadel, sometimes they get way out of hand and MPK EXPing parties.
I agree with this sediment. MPKs happen way too often at these NMs, and in my experiences EXPing in the Citadel, sometimes they get way out of hand and MPK EXPing parties.
This happened to me just yesterday. We were xping, and someone got Serket and pulled it up to where we were drawing our mobs from, which had our party come to a screeching halt for about 20 minutes. During this time, 3 people had trains of bats come to us and Anihilate our party.
Quote:
"Make it so monsters trained to the zone do not aggro until they've walked back to their original starting point!"
This would solve a LOT of the MPKing problems. I don't really see any way around this one, so i highly suggest we take this one into effect.
Quote:
"AoE damage should not affect players in other parties not engaged in the battle with the monster that initiated the AoE attack!"
Now, this is the other MPKing problem right here. Someone draws a mob with a powerfull Aoe, brings it to your party, it shoots, you die.
In combination with these 3 ideas, I firmly beleive that we can Eliminate MPK.
The only other thing i can think of is if someone brings a train of so many mobs over to you, you lag out, and your other party memebers are left to fight on their own.
~~Ivan
#934
Nov 11 2005 at 2:02 PM
Suggestion: As most people know, MPK is usually done out of a.) maliciousness towards a disliked person, or b.) for money/getting rid of competition over NM's or HNM's.The reason most people MPk is for reason b. This game is notoriously difficult to gain money, which is highly needed if you want to play well (unless you find your gil niche its pretty dang hard to get).Actually this is a few suggestions
a.) Have NPC's buy items for more and sell items for less gil
This would add more money to the economy then take away. More money to the economy means more recycling and less need to MPK over high-ticket mobs who drop high money items.
b.) Have beastmen (goblins, quadavs, yagudos, etc.) drop more money. Instead of dropping 10-30 gil in a 6 person party (per person that is) why not 30-120 gil per person per mob? This would also greatly add to the money that is recyclable through the economy.
c.) Have NM's and HNM's that give money per player give more money per person who kills it. A higher reward (such as 1.5 to 2 times more money per NM/HNM kill) would not really give much of an incentive to those who want to MPK for it, well besides the regular drops. In fact, in the longrun, it would take away the incentive to mpk for money/drops because money would be much easier to get, and their would be far more of it in the economy. More money in the economy = cheaper and fairer prices (according to Adam Smith xD).
These suggestions would make money easier to get, which would lead to less disputes and hard times over money, which would lead to less need, and eventual abolition of MPK for money. Although you would still have the MPKer's for hate and or dislike around, GM's could easily take care of them.
Edited, Fri Nov 11 14:14:11 2005 by Prancibald
Woah, whats up with the rate-downage? I thought this was supposed to be an objective thread with tips and ideas for SE, not some kind of hate fest ; ;
Edited, Fri Nov 11 17:31:48 2005 by Prancibald
a.) Have NPC's buy items for more and sell items for less gil
This would add more money to the economy then take away. More money to the economy means more recycling and less need to MPK over high-ticket mobs who drop high money items.
b.) Have beastmen (goblins, quadavs, yagudos, etc.) drop more money. Instead of dropping 10-30 gil in a 6 person party (per person that is) why not 30-120 gil per person per mob? This would also greatly add to the money that is recyclable through the economy.
c.) Have NM's and HNM's that give money per player give more money per person who kills it. A higher reward (such as 1.5 to 2 times more money per NM/HNM kill) would not really give much of an incentive to those who want to MPK for it, well besides the regular drops. In fact, in the longrun, it would take away the incentive to mpk for money/drops because money would be much easier to get, and their would be far more of it in the economy. More money in the economy = cheaper and fairer prices (according to Adam Smith xD).
These suggestions would make money easier to get, which would lead to less disputes and hard times over money, which would lead to less need, and eventual abolition of MPK for money. Although you would still have the MPKer's for hate and or dislike around, GM's could easily take care of them.
Edited, Fri Nov 11 14:14:11 2005 by Prancibald
Woah, whats up with the rate-downage? I thought this was supposed to be an objective thread with tips and ideas for SE, not some kind of hate fest ; ;
Edited, Fri Nov 11 17:31:48 2005 by Prancibald
#935
Nov 11 2005 at 4:02 PM
quote:
The only other thing i can think of is if someone brings a train of so many mobs over to you, you lag out, and your other party memebers are left to fight on their own.
===========================================================
not hard at all:) why not limite to each person with how many monster each player can train. like if it is ID imposible to gauge or IT to the trainer. Why not limit it to 3??? or 2. Do you think any body in the game can solo 2 IT monsters? if it is a party of 6 then limit them to 12 monsters for the whole group. After they get their limit other monster that they run by won't link.
The only other thing i can think of is if someone brings a train of so many mobs over to you, you lag out, and your other party memebers are left to fight on their own.
===========================================================
not hard at all:) why not limite to each person with how many monster each player can train. like if it is ID imposible to gauge or IT to the trainer. Why not limit it to 3??? or 2. Do you think any body in the game can solo 2 IT monsters? if it is a party of 6 then limit them to 12 monsters for the whole group. After they get their limit other monster that they run by won't link.
#936
Nov 11 2005 at 6:07 PM
This is an interesting thread, I've always wanted to say some things. whether or not they're said.
but In my case, I've been wronged in this myself.
some rules could be in place about MPK. like intentionally killing beastmaster pets to give him or her nothing to work with and ultimately die. (usually over an NM or to be just plain meanie faces.)
sometimes its an accident, but if its intentional it does seem like MPK just the same. Basically any act that would be used to kill someone should be outlawed.
The RMT groups and rivalling HNMLS's off their rocker (more meanie faces) will grab sound, magic, and sight linking mobs, usually things that will affect out-of-party players to get them killed over NM's and camps. I would say SE should chaperone some coveted monsters. an invisible GM. and if something goes wrong he'll pop up (as i always wanted to see a GM come and own some weakling monster ; ;) and give the red flag.
.... thats all.. lol
Revamp the policies on MPK, and have some GM's or live camera's placed at NM spawns.
I realize there are ALOT of monsters to watch though. lol. but only the ones people can actually MPK over. like in zones where there are truesight and will aggro someone no matter what.
but In my case, I've been wronged in this myself.
some rules could be in place about MPK. like intentionally killing beastmaster pets to give him or her nothing to work with and ultimately die. (usually over an NM or to be just plain meanie faces.)
sometimes its an accident, but if its intentional it does seem like MPK just the same. Basically any act that would be used to kill someone should be outlawed.
The RMT groups and rivalling HNMLS's off their rocker (more meanie faces) will grab sound, magic, and sight linking mobs, usually things that will affect out-of-party players to get them killed over NM's and camps. I would say SE should chaperone some coveted monsters. an invisible GM. and if something goes wrong he'll pop up (as i always wanted to see a GM come and own some weakling monster ; ;) and give the red flag.
.... thats all.. lol
Revamp the policies on MPK, and have some GM's or live camera's placed at NM spawns.
I realize there are ALOT of monsters to watch though. lol. but only the ones people can actually MPK over. like in zones where there are truesight and will aggro someone no matter what.
#937
Nov 11 2005 at 6:47 PM
8 posts
I realize that this thread has more than likely already served it's purpose for SE, but none the less I'd like to chime in my 2 cents.
Would it be possible to institute a "leesh" system as in WoW? An aggroed (yellow) monster can only follow it's target a set distance before it gives up and returns to it's spawn point? Or make a cooldown timer during which once a mob has gone from red to yellow, they will not aggro, will proceed directly to their spawnpoint (as opposed to a walk/stop as they do now), and have a 50% speed increase?
As it is, a monster once hit (red) will more than likely follow it's aggressor untill they zone and lose all aggro. I'm not really sure how MPKers do their thing, but I can't imagine many people MPKing someone with mobs that are just as likely to kill them in the process. So a red Too Weak will stop after half a "sector", Tough+ after 2 sectors? If you limit the distance a red aggro'd mob will travel based on the monster's level vs the player's, maybe it would be possible to keep higher lv PCs from dropping onto lower lv PCs?
Would it be possible to institute a "leesh" system as in WoW? An aggroed (yellow) monster can only follow it's target a set distance before it gives up and returns to it's spawn point? Or make a cooldown timer during which once a mob has gone from red to yellow, they will not aggro, will proceed directly to their spawnpoint (as opposed to a walk/stop as they do now), and have a 50% speed increase?
As it is, a monster once hit (red) will more than likely follow it's aggressor untill they zone and lose all aggro. I'm not really sure how MPKers do their thing, but I can't imagine many people MPKing someone with mobs that are just as likely to kill them in the process. So a red Too Weak will stop after half a "sector", Tough+ after 2 sectors? If you limit the distance a red aggro'd mob will travel based on the monster's level vs the player's, maybe it would be possible to keep higher lv PCs from dropping onto lower lv PCs?
#938
Nov 12 2005 at 12:17 AM
1 post
i suppose why some want GMs at spawn points is they don't see anything, this is what happend while i camped roc...
camping roc 6 of us vs 11 gilsellers
i watch them voke random mobs that pop and after a while i GM call them on botting so a GM can watch them bot voke these junk mobs that pop... you number in line is 82...
1.5 hours later
bard says, dam roc poped right in front of that seller and she got it.
GM, hello i am GMxxxxxxx you reported that someone is using 3rd party programs to to give them an unfair advantage?
yes i watched the gillsellers voke mobs that popped and they voked it immediately after they popped 6 times
(in the background while i chat with the GM...)
my LS leader in ls chat, i'm gonna train the **** outta em!
/linkshell err i'm chatting with a GM atm : /
the conversation continues with the GM in a slow pace, while my in the background the others with me, train about 20 gobs lizards and stuff binding them and dumping hate onto the gilsellers and...
GM, thank you for your concern.
(didn't notice the mass chaos in the background...)
although the GM being blind was in our favor that time it can be assumed they don't see anything at all in game even when they are chatting with you about your call.
Edited, Sat Nov 12 01:00:01 2005 by vbr
camping roc 6 of us vs 11 gilsellers
i watch them voke random mobs that pop and after a while i GM call them on botting so a GM can watch them bot voke these junk mobs that pop... you number in line is 82...
1.5 hours later
bard says, dam roc poped right in front of that seller and she got it.
GM, hello i am GMxxxxxxx you reported that someone is using 3rd party programs to to give them an unfair advantage?
yes i watched the gillsellers voke mobs that popped and they voked it immediately after they popped 6 times
(in the background while i chat with the GM...)
my LS leader in ls chat, i'm gonna train the **** outta em!
/linkshell err i'm chatting with a GM atm : /
the conversation continues with the GM in a slow pace, while my in the background the others with me, train about 20 gobs lizards and stuff binding them and dumping hate onto the gilsellers and...
GM, thank you for your concern.
(didn't notice the mass chaos in the background...)
although the GM being blind was in our favor that time it can be assumed they don't see anything at all in game even when they are chatting with you about your call.
Edited, Sat Nov 12 01:00:01 2005 by vbr
#939
Nov 12 2005 at 12:31 AM
I admit that i havn't exactly had time to read through this mass of a thread and i apologize if these are not original ideas.
Suggestion: Make it so that when a mob links it will loose hate after a certain period of time if there is more then, lets say, 5 or so mobs. So instead of 12 mobs following a person all the way across the zone there are maybe 3 or 4.
Suggestion: Mobs who aggro without being attacked/claimed loose hate easier over a time they are following a player.
Ex: Player aggro's citadel bats on garilage stair case, player makes a break for zone, citadel bats no longer have interest by the time player is half way to zone.
Suggestion: In certain places like Crawler's Nest or Garilage Citadel make it so that certain "problem" mobs can not leave a certain area. This would help to reduce a chain of say 15 mobs at a zone that no one can get in or out of due to aggro.
Ex: Citadel Bats can not leave the stairs or go past a certain point, or Soldiar/RumbleCrawlers not leave the main large room that they spawn in/near.
Suggestion: When a BST releases a mob, put the mob into a "daze" until it has moved back to either it's original spawn point or for a long enough time for it to move away from where it was dropped. Giving people time to kill the mob they are fighting and move away in the event that it was dropped on/near them.
Thanks for taking the time to ask our ideas and i hope you can use them.
Suggestion: Make it so that when a mob links it will loose hate after a certain period of time if there is more then, lets say, 5 or so mobs. So instead of 12 mobs following a person all the way across the zone there are maybe 3 or 4.
Suggestion: Mobs who aggro without being attacked/claimed loose hate easier over a time they are following a player.
Ex: Player aggro's citadel bats on garilage stair case, player makes a break for zone, citadel bats no longer have interest by the time player is half way to zone.
Suggestion: In certain places like Crawler's Nest or Garilage Citadel make it so that certain "problem" mobs can not leave a certain area. This would help to reduce a chain of say 15 mobs at a zone that no one can get in or out of due to aggro.
Ex: Citadel Bats can not leave the stairs or go past a certain point, or Soldiar/RumbleCrawlers not leave the main large room that they spawn in/near.
Suggestion: When a BST releases a mob, put the mob into a "daze" until it has moved back to either it's original spawn point or for a long enough time for it to move away from where it was dropped. Giving people time to kill the mob they are fighting and move away in the event that it was dropped on/near them.
Thanks for taking the time to ask our ideas and i hope you can use them.
#940
Nov 12 2005 at 12:45 AM
25 posts
I noticed the other day, while walking through an EP-EV area(don't remember where), i cut between a mob and someone fighting him. red letters popped in my chatbox telling me i got hit by this mob. This may be along the lines of outside engagement MPK of sorts. if it is then should be fixed.
>>>I do like the idea of mobs not linking or aggroing untill they have reached their wandering area.
>>>The post about the mobs zoning with you is nice too. them not actually following you but just sort of disappearing and then respawning at a predetermined time later. Even NM's if you zone a NM though then his time has gone and you must wait for next spawn time before he comes around again.
>>>I do like the idea of mobs not linking or aggroing untill they have reached their wandering area.
>>>The post about the mobs zoning with you is nice too. them not actually following you but just sort of disappearing and then respawning at a predetermined time later. Even NM's if you zone a NM though then his time has gone and you must wait for next spawn time before he comes around again.
#941
Nov 12 2005 at 1:42 AM
2 posts
Obviously you didnt get my point...
The point is : Whats the bigger issue here MPK or RMT?
who gives a flying f+++ about MPK, look at the bigger issue SE.
MPK doesnt ruin the game, gil seller ruin the game
Focus on the pressing issues not some BS that doesnt really matter><
You pretend to care, yet do ABSOULTELY NOTHING to stop people from RMT.
Everyone who works as GM probably sells gil themselves><
The point is : Whats the bigger issue here MPK or RMT?
who gives a flying f+++ about MPK, look at the bigger issue SE.
MPK doesnt ruin the game, gil seller ruin the game
Focus on the pressing issues not some BS that doesnt really matter><
You pretend to care, yet do ABSOULTELY NOTHING to stop people from RMT.
Everyone who works as GM probably sells gil themselves><
#942
Nov 12 2005 at 1:45 AM
Quote:
Suggestion: As most people know, MPK is usually done out of a.) maliciousness towards a disliked person, or b.) for money/getting rid of competition over NM's or HNM's.The reason most people MPk is for reason b. This game is notoriously difficult to gain money, which is highly needed if you want to play well (unless you find your gil niche its pretty dang hard to get).Actually this is a few suggestions
a.) Have NPC's buy items for more and sell items for less gil
This would add more money to the economy then take away. More money to the economy means more recycling and less need to MPK over high-ticket mobs who drop high money items.
b.) Have beastmen (goblins, quadavs, yagudos, etc.) drop more money. Instead of dropping 10-30 gil in a 6 person party (per person that is) why not 30-120 gil per person per mob? This would also greatly add to the money that is recyclable through the economy.
c.) Have NM's and HNM's that give money per player give more money per person who kills it. A higher reward (such as 1.5 to 2 times more money per NM/HNM kill) would not really give much of an incentive to those who want to MPK for it, well besides the regular drops. In fact, in the longrun, it would take away the incentive to mpk for money/drops because money would be much easier to get, and their would be far more of it in the economy. More money in the economy = cheaper and fairer prices (according to Adam Smith xD).
These suggestions would make money easier to get, which would lead to less disputes and hard times over money, which would lead to less need, and eventual abolition of MPK for money. Although you would still have the MPKer's for hate and or dislike around, GM's could easily take care of them.
Edited, Fri Nov 11 14:14:11 2005 by Prancibald
Woah, whats up with the rate-downage? I thought this was supposed to be an objective thread with tips and ideas for SE, not some kind of hate fest ; ;
a.) Have NPC's buy items for more and sell items for less gil
This would add more money to the economy then take away. More money to the economy means more recycling and less need to MPK over high-ticket mobs who drop high money items.
b.) Have beastmen (goblins, quadavs, yagudos, etc.) drop more money. Instead of dropping 10-30 gil in a 6 person party (per person that is) why not 30-120 gil per person per mob? This would also greatly add to the money that is recyclable through the economy.
c.) Have NM's and HNM's that give money per player give more money per person who kills it. A higher reward (such as 1.5 to 2 times more money per NM/HNM kill) would not really give much of an incentive to those who want to MPK for it, well besides the regular drops. In fact, in the longrun, it would take away the incentive to mpk for money/drops because money would be much easier to get, and their would be far more of it in the economy. More money in the economy = cheaper and fairer prices (according to Adam Smith xD).
These suggestions would make money easier to get, which would lead to less disputes and hard times over money, which would lead to less need, and eventual abolition of MPK for money. Although you would still have the MPKer's for hate and or dislike around, GM's could easily take care of them.
Edited, Fri Nov 11 14:14:11 2005 by Prancibald
Woah, whats up with the rate-downage? I thought this was supposed to be an objective thread with tips and ideas for SE, not some kind of hate fest ; ;
The probable reason for ratedowns is that all your suggestions would in fact make inflation worse than it is, which would have the completely opposite effect of what you propose it would.
Increasing selling to NPCs and increasing the amount of gil that drops from beastman mobs will simply create more gil in the system. This will cause inflation not deflation. The more gil there is in the system, the less value the individual gil has. When the value of gil goes down, the value of items goes up, meaning that high-ticket items will become even more expensive, and item turnover will become more scarce.
That aside, while it is agreed that many times MPK is caused for financial reasons, economy adjustments such as the ones you are describing are not likely to have a major effect on MPKs.
#943
Nov 12 2005 at 2:38 AM
Not sure if it was suggested, too lazy to read 19 pages, but
Suggestion: Make it so a single GM can watch several HNM pops at a time, such as how you can view the live vana diel on the playonline website, then you wouldnt need a GM at every spawn, just a few GM watching a more spots, it should still be easy to see any mpk happeneing watching 4-6 pops at a time.
Suggestion: Make it so a single GM can watch several HNM pops at a time, such as how you can view the live vana diel on the playonline website, then you wouldnt need a GM at every spawn, just a few GM watching a more spots, it should still be easy to see any mpk happeneing watching 4-6 pops at a time.
#944
Nov 12 2005 at 4:06 AM
11 posts
suggestion: when there are several people in a party and they are all fighting a mob, they all have hate, and one of the party members zone, keep the mob from turning yellow.
#945
Nov 12 2005 at 6:49 AM
8 posts
One suggestion I have is that some MPK's take place when multiple parties are competing for exp mobs in certain areas. If there would be some way for the zone to monitor how many players are fighting exp mobs and when it notices a decline in available mobs increase the number of available mobs for players to exp on.
#946
Nov 12 2005 at 10:44 AM
17 posts
Suggestion: Certain HNM (King Artho specificly) cause a bunch of other monsters to spawn immediatly preceeding the spawn of the HNM itself. For the HNM where many people are reporting MPKs, perhaps something similar could be done, only in reverse - all the regular monsters within a certain radius could despawn. Although this would give some advanced warning as to when the HNM will actually spawn, it would remove monsters that are currently being used for MPK purposes. As these HNM are killed within a reasonable time as is (especially after the patch that increases the difficult of certain HNM that are left alive for too long), this would not have any lasting impact on players in the area who wish to claim the monsters for legitmate purposes.
Suggestion: Just as players have claim on a monster, monsters should have claim on players. Everyone involved that would give the monster hate should give it "claim", and just as players can't actually damage claimed monsters, so to would monsters that have claim on players not be able to harm players outside of the claim list. This would then still give hate for outside-of-party healers, but eliminate the bind issue.
Suggestion: Combining the claim list from above, if all players who the monster has claim on leave the zone (either by zoning out, teleporting, or warping), the monster then should either a) despawn and respawn at its original spawn point, b) not be able to link with any other monster until it has returned to its original spawn point/natural wandering radius of its spawn point nor be able to aggro anyone along the way to its spawn point, or even c) have every monster generate a log file on the server of what players had claim on it and send out a warning to the GMs on duty if said monster is being constantly claimed and run to a zone without actually being killed.
When it comes down to it, there's really 2 types of MPK: intentional and unintentional. There are times when we as players end up biting off more than we can chew and try to make a run for it. After all, the run/flee command has been around since the very first final fantasy title, and is part of the whole strategy-based system. I've noticed, however, that there appears to be some flaws in the original design of the spells "Deodorize", "Sneak", and "Invisible." No monster actually aggros by scent but rather will chase players across the zone until they loose the scent. I have yet to actually see the deodorize spell work the way it was intended, and thus we who are legitimatly trying to flee for our lives don't even bother to use the spells and items with the same effect to flee aggro and instead run for a zone. This segue leads into the next suggestion -
Suggestion: Increase the ability of the spells "Sneak", "Deodorize", and "Invisible" to be able to shed aggro on players. I.e. if a monster tracks players by scent and aggros by sound, if the player is able to escape the sound radius of the monster and then uses a deodorizer item or casts the spell deodorize, the monster should shed all hate immediatly. Similarly, when being chased by monsters who track by sight, casting an invisible spell should actually shed hate as the monster is supposed to only be able to track players by sight. A flaw to this is that it could actually make a new method for MPKers to be able to deposit monsters on others, but it would help out we who wish to shed hate for a legitmate purpose from training a band of monsters to a zone where people may be trying to gain exp.
Suggestion: Make more "camp" areas away from zones. This way, there isn't a pile of parties at the zone (Such as in Yhoator Jungle) for when someone is trying to escape monsters.
Suggestion: (related to the first suggestion of this reply) If a monster is removed from its "home area" by a certain distance (such as when people take a Rumble Crawler all the way back to the entrance to Crawlers' Nest), the monster should immediatly despawn once all of its targets are gone. Basicly, force high-level monsters that end up in lower-level monster areas to despawn rather than slowly dragging themselves back to their spawn point. This would also apply to beastmaster pets who are dismissed in low level areas using the "leave" command. Not only would this prevent some forms of MPK, it would benefit experience point parties in the higher level areas who loose potential targets because someone took it all the way to a zone.
As a final note, I would like to just say to everyone who has vented a certain amount of steam throughout this reply to try to relax a bit. If you haven't noticed, the game takes up around 8 GB of space...that's a whole lot of programming code. Which is a lot of code for programers to try to go through to be able to debug and fix certain issues. Take some deep breaths and try to realize how much effort it takes to reprogram something this large, and try not to lash out at someone who's genuinly trying to help us all out. Remember too, a lot of the complaints come from English-speaking players, and the original programmers and programming were all in Japanese, already creating a barrier in fixing things. Thank you for your assitance and taking this matter seriously, and if they don't give you a promotion for going above and beyond like this, your bosses should all be smacked. ^_^
Suggestion: Just as players have claim on a monster, monsters should have claim on players. Everyone involved that would give the monster hate should give it "claim", and just as players can't actually damage claimed monsters, so to would monsters that have claim on players not be able to harm players outside of the claim list. This would then still give hate for outside-of-party healers, but eliminate the bind issue.
Suggestion: Combining the claim list from above, if all players who the monster has claim on leave the zone (either by zoning out, teleporting, or warping), the monster then should either a) despawn and respawn at its original spawn point, b) not be able to link with any other monster until it has returned to its original spawn point/natural wandering radius of its spawn point nor be able to aggro anyone along the way to its spawn point, or even c) have every monster generate a log file on the server of what players had claim on it and send out a warning to the GMs on duty if said monster is being constantly claimed and run to a zone without actually being killed.
When it comes down to it, there's really 2 types of MPK: intentional and unintentional. There are times when we as players end up biting off more than we can chew and try to make a run for it. After all, the run/flee command has been around since the very first final fantasy title, and is part of the whole strategy-based system. I've noticed, however, that there appears to be some flaws in the original design of the spells "Deodorize", "Sneak", and "Invisible." No monster actually aggros by scent but rather will chase players across the zone until they loose the scent. I have yet to actually see the deodorize spell work the way it was intended, and thus we who are legitimatly trying to flee for our lives don't even bother to use the spells and items with the same effect to flee aggro and instead run for a zone. This segue leads into the next suggestion -
Suggestion: Increase the ability of the spells "Sneak", "Deodorize", and "Invisible" to be able to shed aggro on players. I.e. if a monster tracks players by scent and aggros by sound, if the player is able to escape the sound radius of the monster and then uses a deodorizer item or casts the spell deodorize, the monster should shed all hate immediatly. Similarly, when being chased by monsters who track by sight, casting an invisible spell should actually shed hate as the monster is supposed to only be able to track players by sight. A flaw to this is that it could actually make a new method for MPKers to be able to deposit monsters on others, but it would help out we who wish to shed hate for a legitmate purpose from training a band of monsters to a zone where people may be trying to gain exp.
Suggestion: Make more "camp" areas away from zones. This way, there isn't a pile of parties at the zone (Such as in Yhoator Jungle) for when someone is trying to escape monsters.
Suggestion: (related to the first suggestion of this reply) If a monster is removed from its "home area" by a certain distance (such as when people take a Rumble Crawler all the way back to the entrance to Crawlers' Nest), the monster should immediatly despawn once all of its targets are gone. Basicly, force high-level monsters that end up in lower-level monster areas to despawn rather than slowly dragging themselves back to their spawn point. This would also apply to beastmaster pets who are dismissed in low level areas using the "leave" command. Not only would this prevent some forms of MPK, it would benefit experience point parties in the higher level areas who loose potential targets because someone took it all the way to a zone.
As a final note, I would like to just say to everyone who has vented a certain amount of steam throughout this reply to try to relax a bit. If you haven't noticed, the game takes up around 8 GB of space...that's a whole lot of programming code. Which is a lot of code for programers to try to go through to be able to debug and fix certain issues. Take some deep breaths and try to realize how much effort it takes to reprogram something this large, and try not to lash out at someone who's genuinly trying to help us all out. Remember too, a lot of the complaints come from English-speaking players, and the original programmers and programming were all in Japanese, already creating a barrier in fixing things. Thank you for your assitance and taking this matter seriously, and if they don't give you a promotion for going above and beyond like this, your bosses should all be smacked. ^_^
#947
Nov 12 2005 at 11:54 AM
Quote:
Will you noobs please shut the @#%^ up about gil sellers?
Gil sellers aren't the only ones MPKing people. The last few instances of MPKing I've heard about on Titan were done by "regular" players and/or HNMLSs mad because they didn't get claim. If SE banned all the gilsellers across every server, MPK would still happen, because the mechanics of the game that allow it would still be in place.
Instead of screaming "GILSELLERS!" everytime something goes wrong, come up with ideas like these other people on how to stop MPKing, so NO ONE can do it, not just gilsellers.
It's funny people ramble on and on about gilsellers, don't even address what the SE guy asked about, THEN complain SE never listens to us. I wouldn't listen to most of you either.
Fred.
Gil sellers aren't the only ones MPKing people. The last few instances of MPKing I've heard about on Titan were done by "regular" players and/or HNMLSs mad because they didn't get claim. If SE banned all the gilsellers across every server, MPK would still happen, because the mechanics of the game that allow it would still be in place.
Instead of screaming "GILSELLERS!" everytime something goes wrong, come up with ideas like these other people on how to stop MPKing, so NO ONE can do it, not just gilsellers.
It's funny people ramble on and on about gilsellers, don't even address what the SE guy asked about, THEN complain SE never listens to us. I wouldn't listen to most of you either.
Fred.
Kinda true... so if there would be no gillsellers, then there would be less MPK'ing ?... well, why are there gilsellers? Because it takes too long, and too much effort to earn good gil. Not everyone has the ample time to build up a craft, hunt NM's to fund their exciting quests and exploits. When you sign on, do you look forward to farming or camping an NM to make gil? Hell no! I sure don't, I wanna go do fun stuff which will cost gil most likely...
Anyways, my point is that if the economy was better, there wouldn't be gillselling, and MPK'ing for claims for NM's that drop valubable items to sell.
So.. new suggestion: FIX THE DAMN ECONOMY!!! Sorry, I'm not great with economics, thats why we have accountants. But here's a couple ideas that might help:
1)suggestion: Stop the inflation.. raise the amount NPC's pay for junk drops. And Raise the amount of gil that mobs drop.
2)suggestion:Make high value drops sellable by NPC's.
3)suggestion: Stop limiting the quantity of certain items that can be sold by NPC's... example: if a guild item could be bought infinitely than people wouldn't camp the guild to buy one item and sell it for a ridiculous mark-up at the AH.
D)suggestion: Make high value drops craftable (by smithing please, yeah I'm bias).
5)suggestion: Make it so high value craft items are more easily attainable (damascus ingot, adaman ore etc...) Then it won't cost 10 billion gil just to make one piece of gear.
6)suggestion: Or make all high value drops rare/ex, or make them drop more frequently and by more than one NM. Example: Monster Signa, I killed Majin Freakin Bu 32 times with NO DROP, WTF!!!! This is not right!!! It should be a 100% drop, and he should pop every 20 minutes instead of every 2-3 hours!!! I spent I don't know how many hours waiting around Giddeus .. WHY AM I PAYING SE MONEY TO STAND AROUND!?!!?!
£)suggestion: Lower the AH costs in jueno!! For f><ks sake! What the hell were yall thinking ?!! If it costs me 200k to put an item up for sale... then I'm gonna raise the price on it by 200k... It's a deadly circle of inflation!
8) You know how you can spawn some quest NM's with a quest item? This should be so for NM's that drop high value drops, example: The mob that drops moldavite earring, you can now buy a 10 gil item in jueno to pop him, as it is part of a quest. And the drop is 100%
So, those are a couple suggestions, honestly I'm not sure if they will fix the economy, but how will you know if you don't try?
Edited, Sat Nov 12 12:07:17 2005 by Kanobrown
Edited, Sat Nov 12 12:17:40 2005 by Kanobrown
Edited, Sat Nov 12 12:12:05 2005 by Kanobrown
#948
Nov 12 2005 at 2:08 PM
Quote:
Stop the inflation.. raise the amount NPC's pay for junk drops. And Raise the amount of gil that mobs drop.
Wouldn't that make inflation worse? Inflation is having too much gil in the economy, if anything they should make NPCs pay less
#949
Nov 12 2005 at 4:56 PM
17 posts
Quote:
So.. new suggestion: FIX THE DAMN ECONOMY!!! Sorry, I'm not great with economics, thats why we have accountants. But here's a couple ideas that might help:
1)suggestion: Stop the inflation.. raise the amount NPC's pay for junk drops. And Raise the amount of gil that mobs drop.
2)suggestion:Make high value drops sellable by NPC's.
3)suggestion: Stop limiting the quantity of certain items that can be sold by NPC's... example: if a guild item could be bought infinitely than people wouldn't camp the guild to buy one item and sell it for a ridiculous mark-up at the AH.
D)suggestion: Make high value drops craftable (by smithing please, yeah I'm bias).
5)suggestion: Make it so high value craft items are more easily attainable (damascus ingot, adaman ore etc...) Then it won't cost 10 billion gil just to make one piece of gear.
6)suggestion: Or make all high value drops rare/ex, or make them drop more frequently and by more than one NM. Example: Monster Signa, I killed Majin Freakin Bu 32 times with NO DROP, WTF!!!! This is not right!!! It should be a 100% drop, and he should pop every 20 minutes instead of every 2-3 hours!!! I spent I don't know how many hours waiting around Giddeus .. WHY AM I PAYING SE MONEY TO STAND AROUND!?!!?!
£)suggestion: Lower the AH costs in jueno!! For f><ks sake! What the hell were yall thinking ?!! If it costs me 200k to put an item up for sale... then I'm gonna raise the price on it by 200k... It's a deadly circle of inflation!
8) You know how you can spawn some quest NM's with a quest item? This should be so for NM's that drop high value drops, example: The mob that drops moldavite earring, you can now buy a 10 gil item in jueno to pop him, as it is part of a quest. And the drop is 100%
1)suggestion: Stop the inflation.. raise the amount NPC's pay for junk drops. And Raise the amount of gil that mobs drop.
2)suggestion:Make high value drops sellable by NPC's.
3)suggestion: Stop limiting the quantity of certain items that can be sold by NPC's... example: if a guild item could be bought infinitely than people wouldn't camp the guild to buy one item and sell it for a ridiculous mark-up at the AH.
D)suggestion: Make high value drops craftable (by smithing please, yeah I'm bias).
5)suggestion: Make it so high value craft items are more easily attainable (damascus ingot, adaman ore etc...) Then it won't cost 10 billion gil just to make one piece of gear.
6)suggestion: Or make all high value drops rare/ex, or make them drop more frequently and by more than one NM. Example: Monster Signa, I killed Majin Freakin Bu 32 times with NO DROP, WTF!!!! This is not right!!! It should be a 100% drop, and he should pop every 20 minutes instead of every 2-3 hours!!! I spent I don't know how many hours waiting around Giddeus .. WHY AM I PAYING SE MONEY TO STAND AROUND!?!!?!
£)suggestion: Lower the AH costs in jueno!! For f><ks sake! What the hell were yall thinking ?!! If it costs me 200k to put an item up for sale... then I'm gonna raise the price on it by 200k... It's a deadly circle of inflation!
8) You know how you can spawn some quest NM's with a quest item? This should be so for NM's that drop high value drops, example: The mob that drops moldavite earring, you can now buy a 10 gil item in jueno to pop him, as it is part of a quest. And the drop is 100%
Just a couple of notes on these from someone who does understand economics, point by point.
1- The number one cause of inflation is because too much money is put into circulation, which devalues the currency. If NPC's, who have an unlimited amount of gil resources, started to pay out higher amounts for "junk" drops, more gil enters the economy, more items permanantly leave the economy, and that makes the whole problem worse.
2- By high value, I'm assuming you're attaching the AH value. High value items are, by their very nature, rare. If NPC's started selling all the high valued items, the market is flooded with them, and then the AH values would start to drop...but then the item isn't rare anymore, and then what's the point? The point of a rare item is that it should be difficult to obtain. It would be nice if every mage could have a serket ring and all, but then, where would be the challenge to the game? What would really be the point if these great items that everyone wants were just easily accessable?
3- Every item that the guilds sell can be farmed for, harvested, mined, desynthed, or grown. The limited supply from the guilds allow suplliers in the form of farmers, crafters, etc. to be able to turn a profit for their skills. The limited supply keeps the whole system going entirly. In fact, the solution is more the opposite of what you are saying...not making them unlimited, but rather decreasing the amount guilds carry and raising the selling price of the items.
4- This one actually has some merit (with the exception of your bias, which if you want to be taken seriously you should really keep out). Going by the whole story theory of how crystal synthasis works, you should be able to synth any item in the game...but that would simply be impractical. After all, take for example shining cloth. Say now you make that synthable...what ingrediants would go in it? Certainly it would need to be extremly uncommon ones because the cloth is used to synth very powerful armors. But then...those ingredients would need to be able to be synthed...and you'd need uncomon items to make the uncomon items...eventually, you've destroyed the point of the item being rare. It's the same thing with any desirable item...it's rare because it's powerful and if everyone could get one just like that, it would absolutly destroy the point of them. Yes, Astral rings are great...but not everyone can have them. That's why there's Electrum Rings. Maybe not as good, but good enough, and it's synthable.
5- Again, what's the point then if everyone can run around with a Noble's Tunic? The rarity of certain synth items is because they make very powerful things that would destroy the balance if everyone in the game had one. The whole strategy of the game is nullified if everyone can have the best of everything for pennies. And by the way, that 10 billion is set by what players are willing to pay for the item, because the AH is entirly controlled by players. If you want to reduce the AH price of an item...then don't buy it if it's beyond what you believe it should be worth.
6- Because you're choosing to stand around because you want that one stupid item. You know the rarity of the drop, you know the spawn time of the monster...this is an online game, with multiple players on at multiple times. It sounds like what you really want is a one player game with a gameshark so that you can have everything all at once. This is not that. It is designed to work more like reality, in that there are only a certain number of items available at any given point in time. Sorry you killed it 30 times...maybe instead you should have looked for alternative items that were similar. Maybe not quite as good...but if you want the best, you have to be willing to put in the time and effort to get the best, or pray that you get lucky to get it with no effort. Just like in reality, not everyone is lucky, and not everyone can have everything.
7- You entirly miss the point of the price raise for the AH in Jeuno. By raising the fees to sell something for a higher price, the aim was that you would LOWER the price so you don't have to pay so much. Instead, you want to be greedy and sell your item for the same 2mil, rather than lowering it to a reasonable price to begin with. The AH fees are relative to what YOUR selling the item for, so you can either raise the price...which increases your fees again...or you can lower the price. The fees taken by the AH are taken out of circulation...and removing the amount of currency available to circulate LOWERS inflation. That's basic basic economics.
8- Number 1, Moldavite Earring is rare/ex, and the NM spawns every 2-3 hours, which is perfectly reasonable to begin with. Again, you sound like you just want everything handed to you, and what then is the point of the game? If you want a game where you can hack into it and spend no effort to obtain what you want, go buy a 1 player game and a gameshark.
Finally...THIS THREAD WAS ABOUT MPKS NOT 'FIXING' THE ECONOMY YOU FREAKING MORON. TAKE YOUR BABY BS TO A NEW THREAD AND STAY ON TOPIC INSTEAD OF COMING HERE AND SOUNDING LIKE A COMPLETE IDIOT. AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW JACK ABOUT ECONOMICS DON'T MAKE GARBAGE SUGGESTIONS AS IF YOU DO KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT. "How do you know if you don't try?" BECAUSE THERE'S HUNDREDS OF YEARS OF RESEARCH IN HOW ECONOMICS WORKS AND YOU DON'T GO BLINDLY THROWING POO AT A PROBLEM HOPING THAT SOME OF IT STICKS!
#950
Nov 12 2005 at 6:00 PM
"Yukihoshi" wrote:
Finally...THIS THREAD WAS ABOUT MPKS NOT 'FIXING' THE ECONOMY YOU FREAKING MORON. TAKE YOUR BABY BS TO A NEW THREAD AND STAY ON TOPIC INSTEAD OF COMING HERE AND SOUNDING LIKE A COMPLETE IDIOT. AND IF YOU DON'T KNOW JACK ABOUT ECONOMICS DON'T MAKE GARBAGE SUGGESTIONS AS IF YOU DO KNOW WHAT YOUR TALKING ABOUT. "How do you know if you don't try?" BECAUSE THERE'S HUNDREDS OF YEARS OF RESEARCH IN HOW ECONOMICS WORKS AND YOU DON'T GO BLINDLY THROWING POO AT A PROBLEM HOPING THAT SOME OF IT STICKS!
"Kano" wrote:
Anyways, my point is that if the economy was better, there wouldn't be gillselling, and MPK'ing for claims for NM's that drop valubable items to sell.
/em throws poo at the problem.
Hey man, I'm not looking to pick a fight, I was just proposing ideas... so I would appreciate you not calling my ideas 'baby BS'.
MPK'ing over high value drops is a very serious problem, IMO.
#951
Nov 12 2005 at 8:14 PM
SUGGESTION: Give North American and European players access to the GMs hired by SE in Japan. It is simply unfair and, in a way, racist to not allow us real GMs that can rectify situations such as MPK.
For those not in the know, our NA GMs are hired by Sony, and must follow a strict rulebook.
For those not in the know, our NA GMs are hired by Sony, and must follow a strict rulebook.
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