Let me start by saying I played FFXI for 1 and 1/2 years, and left for WoW because of gilsellers, terrible prices at AH, and knowing that eventually my poor player would be subject to another poor player's crap.
YAY to SE for listening, and I am fully back in the game, as I have always loved FF.
That said, here are my thoughts,
I agree with Tomokutherdm. Start there.
Suggestion: AoE attacks by mobs (such as the description listed below with the scorpion) needs help. I don't agree with getting rid of AoE, I do agree that the innocent bystander pt should not be left to rot. My thought, if the mob has been aggro'd and is in combat with another party and casts an AoE, the AoE affects it's current party, not those in the area minding their own business.
Suggestion: Those who want to use a star system or mark other players publically would only cause more issues in my opinion. As fun as PVP can be, doing it in response to bad acts can turn hostile. Yes, it may kill off MPK, but would only cause more trouble elsewhere. As SE can't possibly monitor every drop all the time, consistantly and randomly monitoring common and semi-common area's for both MPK AND gil sellers (invisably, becoming viewable when neccessary) would be a huge help. The honest remain honest, the jerks get punished.
Suggestion: MPK isn't the only problem. Though a big one, and there are many great suggestions and I am glad to see it attacked, I think gil selling should be the next big attack. It throws the online economy out of wack and makes it very difficult for the rest of the community.
THANK YOU SO MUCH SE FOR COMING BY AND ASKING FOR OUR OPINION. I hope this trend continues as you have stated you would like to do.
Always,
Seras Victoria
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- Suggestions for changing the MPK system
Suggestions for changing the MPK systemFollow
#1029
Nov 23 2005 at 10:15 AM
On major issue I see with a lot of these ideas are that they require extra manpower on SE's part, or they give a boon to a particular player class. (some unintentional on the posters part)
Suggestion : Do not modify the MOB's aggro code, modify the MOB's chase code to not go into a HNM or NM area while that mob is in battle, while that condition is in effect the monster will not modify its hate list, and not loose its claim tag. To prevent "safe zone" abuse you may want to increase the monsters damage ability or HP's a certain percent per 6 seconds in Safe area. ( accumulative if it can be coded that way )
The side effect of the "safe zone" will likely only be used once or twice due to the MOB's persistence and more Intense aggression once they've left the safe zone, or when the safe zone disappears.
The main result should be that the intentional MPK'er will guide MOB (s) to the players he intends to kill but the monster does not follow into its aggro range for the players in battle.
Meanwhile the MOB (s) in question will become more likely, able to damage to the miscreant that is trying to interfere with players enjoyment of your game, due to the Anti-Safezone code This is where the accumulative part becomes important as the MPK'er may try to center the MOB in the aggro area by running in and out of the safe zone, and in so doing creates their own executioner ideally.
As a safety it may be wise to reset MOB strength back to normal if the primary hate target K.O.'s or otherwise leaves.
One unintended side affect may exist for pullers who have to cross several battle area's to reach their party, the initial delay in Strength increase should prevent this in most cases.
Wow that's a lot of typing for one suggestion. I hope this is somewhat in keeping with the k.i.s.s. principle.
edit - to add following info : Another unintended side effect is that someone fleeing the MOB might use the Safezone to get more distance from the MOB, one fix would be for the MOB to "snap" to the distance it was from the player it was at when the player entered the Safezone. I'm not sure if that is too much to code around or not if the "Distance from player" isn't already in the code.
Edited, Wed Nov 23 11:47:09 2005 by Tierhon
Suggestion : Do not modify the MOB's aggro code, modify the MOB's chase code to not go into a HNM or NM area while that mob is in battle, while that condition is in effect the monster will not modify its hate list, and not loose its claim tag. To prevent "safe zone" abuse you may want to increase the monsters damage ability or HP's a certain percent per 6 seconds in Safe area. ( accumulative if it can be coded that way )
The side effect of the "safe zone" will likely only be used once or twice due to the MOB's persistence and more Intense aggression once they've left the safe zone, or when the safe zone disappears.
The main result should be that the intentional MPK'er will guide MOB (s) to the players he intends to kill but the monster does not follow into its aggro range for the players in battle.
Meanwhile the MOB (s) in question will become more likely, able to damage to the miscreant that is trying to interfere with players enjoyment of your game, due to the Anti-Safezone code This is where the accumulative part becomes important as the MPK'er may try to center the MOB in the aggro area by running in and out of the safe zone, and in so doing creates their own executioner ideally.
As a safety it may be wise to reset MOB strength back to normal if the primary hate target K.O.'s or otherwise leaves.
One unintended side affect may exist for pullers who have to cross several battle area's to reach their party, the initial delay in Strength increase should prevent this in most cases.
Wow that's a lot of typing for one suggestion. I hope this is somewhat in keeping with the k.i.s.s. principle.
edit - to add following info : Another unintended side effect is that someone fleeing the MOB might use the Safezone to get more distance from the MOB, one fix would be for the MOB to "snap" to the distance it was from the player it was at when the player entered the Safezone. I'm not sure if that is too much to code around or not if the "Distance from player" isn't already in the code.
Edited, Wed Nov 23 11:47:09 2005 by Tierhon
#1030
Nov 23 2005 at 4:23 PM
Scholar
25 posts
Quote:
Zimbambadu wrote:If a mob hits you, you should be able to attack it. If you get more hate than the person who bound it on you or w/e or stops attacking it they should lose claim, and it should transfer to you.
This would really mess things up with NMs and HNMs.
You could easily steal a claim if you just had enough healing power. Not a good thing if your group has camped an HNM for 3 days straight only to have some punks show up at the last minute and "heal-steal" it away from you :-)
This would really mess things up with NMs and HNMs.
You could easily steal a claim if you just had enough healing power. Not a good thing if your group has camped an HNM for 3 days straight only to have some punks show up at the last minute and "heal-steal" it away from you :-)
This could be prevented by using the /blockaid feature
#1031
Nov 23 2005 at 7:08 PM
15 posts
yo just wanting to know how do u use the fellowship system and how do u get it
#1033
Nov 23 2005 at 9:44 PM
34 posts
Hello all,
And Princetrion if you have already started it is to late for you to get the fellowship system.That is what the gold passes are for allows you to help a lvl 1 n00b by capping your job to the same lvl as him/her.See any NPC in any town that sells world passes and get a gold pass.It works simular to a world pass but gives both of you a hat and beret.And let's you lvl together as long as you both wear the hats.
Now as for the whole MPK thing ,yes I believe that it is very wrong for anyone to do that at all.And I have very big issues trying to farm NM's such as leeping lizzy on Carbuncle server I need those boots for my THF.And can never get that or the emporer hairpin from the vulkin emp.Due to bot issues with the same plp being around them for over a week! Been playing for almost three years now and I LOVE THE GAME...I know I know why suck low lvl well I Don't play that much have to work alot and all and only have 2-4 hrs to play on most days.Also have a son so think about it????
Also left the game back in January of this year I did end up getting my own leeping boots from lizzy about time only took two years.When I left they were on my main Char. and when I came back they were GONE along with all of my money as well.For some strange reason whoever done it did not take the whole acct or even try to change the Pass I know kindda wierd.
Also most GM's that I call about issues in game do absolutly nothing about the problem.So I just stopped calling on them!
Later da Martian
And Princetrion if you have already started it is to late for you to get the fellowship system.That is what the gold passes are for allows you to help a lvl 1 n00b by capping your job to the same lvl as him/her.See any NPC in any town that sells world passes and get a gold pass.It works simular to a world pass but gives both of you a hat and beret.And let's you lvl together as long as you both wear the hats.
Now as for the whole MPK thing ,yes I believe that it is very wrong for anyone to do that at all.And I have very big issues trying to farm NM's such as leeping lizzy on Carbuncle server I need those boots for my THF.And can never get that or the emporer hairpin from the vulkin emp.Due to bot issues with the same plp being around them for over a week! Been playing for almost three years now and I LOVE THE GAME...I know I know why suck low lvl well I Don't play that much have to work alot and all and only have 2-4 hrs to play on most days.Also have a son so think about it????
Also left the game back in January of this year I did end up getting my own leeping boots from lizzy about time only took two years.When I left they were on my main Char. and when I came back they were GONE along with all of my money as well.For some strange reason whoever done it did not take the whole acct or even try to change the Pass I know kindda wierd.
Also most GM's that I call about issues in game do absolutly nothing about the problem.So I just stopped calling on them!
Later da Martian
#1034
Nov 24 2005 at 1:50 AM
6 posts
rare/ex all NM drops. All Mission and quest NM's in exclusive zones for parties flagged for such missions. Zero tolerance policy for violators, make them buy another copy of the game to play every time they decide to violate the rules.
To be honest, alot of aggression in this game atmosphere is similar to the aggression in real life which is caused by money. Gil on the game's market value "virtual" scale is worth less than spit nowadays, so there's alot of fighting among players to aquire alot of gil in a moderate length of time.
So basically we need a "Roosevelt" to pull off a "New Deal" to put Vana'diel into a recession which would gradually subdue alot of this aggressive behaviour.
Edited, Thu Nov 24 02:02:18 2005 by Gregorybetters
To be honest, alot of aggression in this game atmosphere is similar to the aggression in real life which is caused by money. Gil on the game's market value "virtual" scale is worth less than spit nowadays, so there's alot of fighting among players to aquire alot of gil in a moderate length of time.
So basically we need a "Roosevelt" to pull off a "New Deal" to put Vana'diel into a recession which would gradually subdue alot of this aggressive behaviour.
Edited, Thu Nov 24 02:02:18 2005 by Gregorybetters
#1035
Nov 24 2005 at 12:08 PM
Quote:
rare/ex all NM drops
They did on some. Not all, but some. And on my server the prices of the none Rare/Ex boomed from 900k for Leaping Boots to 3+mil currently. Which is understandable. But for people who aren't great at camping NM's are finding this unfair. But no matter what SE does not everyone will be happy.
Quote:
To be honest, alot of aggression in this game atmosphere is similar to the aggression in real life which is caused by money
I couldn't agree with you more! But, like in RL this issue is down to greed, selfishness and the ecomamey puts too much value on little slips of green paper. But that's life.
Quote:
So basically we need a "Roosevelt" to pull off a "New Deal" to put Vana'diel into a recession which would gradually subdue alot of this aggressive behaviour.
As nice as it would be to be hand-in-hand with fellow Vana'diels, everyone smiling at each other, and /em hugs <t>'ing every person that passes.. It will never happen. =(
#1036
Nov 24 2005 at 12:42 PM
Ok, I can't read all 1000+ entries, I'm only human, so I'm going to make my suggestion, regardless of if it is repeating.
Suggestion: Monsters should be territorial. They should only run a certain distance away from their spawn point after being claimed. Not only would this reduce a lot of zoning traffic, because people can elude mobs, it also evens out farmers, who run around and just hog every mob in a specific are. In addition, an NMs won't run errant and kill XP parties, and Train-MPKing will be a thing of the past, as monsters can't gang up in the volume they used to. Not to mention, the current battle system wouldn't need much revamping, and, it would also add a little flavor to the EXP system, as parties would have to learn to be a little more mobile.
As far as AoE goes, it should only affect people who are "participating" in battle. But, that should involve anyone who's aided a person that's "claimed" the mob, like external white mages, or people who've participated in the party, like swapping in for WSes. Onlookers shouldn't have to suffer the blow if they have done nothing to deserve it.
I'd love to offer perspective on BST, but I don't play it, so I couldn't really tell ya.
Suggestion: Monsters should be territorial. They should only run a certain distance away from their spawn point after being claimed. Not only would this reduce a lot of zoning traffic, because people can elude mobs, it also evens out farmers, who run around and just hog every mob in a specific are. In addition, an NMs won't run errant and kill XP parties, and Train-MPKing will be a thing of the past, as monsters can't gang up in the volume they used to. Not to mention, the current battle system wouldn't need much revamping, and, it would also add a little flavor to the EXP system, as parties would have to learn to be a little more mobile.
As far as AoE goes, it should only affect people who are "participating" in battle. But, that should involve anyone who's aided a person that's "claimed" the mob, like external white mages, or people who've participated in the party, like swapping in for WSes. Onlookers shouldn't have to suffer the blow if they have done nothing to deserve it.
I'd love to offer perspective on BST, but I don't play it, so I couldn't really tell ya.
#1037
Nov 24 2005 at 1:16 PM
Quote:
Monsters should be territorial. They should only run a certain distance away from their spawn point after being claimed.
That's just stupid. That would eliminate the need for a "Camp" in a party, and increase downtime because you'd have to go around and find your mobs. This will cause your Mages to not be able to heal. Great idea. (b' ')b
#1038
Nov 24 2005 at 2:35 PM
how about if the server detects a given number of mobs linked to 1 person (depending on mobs,location, lvl of person)
the mobs gain agro to each other and beat each other up?
#1039
Nov 24 2005 at 4:10 PM
14 posts
I would actually have a few suggestions to make on how to make the game better.
#1. The inflation, its horrible on every server items go from 10k gil to over a million gil in the span of a few hours is insane there should be a set amount on which something should be and even in ah it shouldn't be able to go higher than that.
#2. The battle system, it should go faster, in real life we don't wait 5 or more seconds to swing a sword or stab some one with a dagger. The delay in hitting an oponent is a little bit out of date another thing to look at perhaps make it like the Fishing craft stamina type of thing where the longer you fight the more time between blows happens.
that is about all that I have thought about and thank you.
#1. The inflation, its horrible on every server items go from 10k gil to over a million gil in the span of a few hours is insane there should be a set amount on which something should be and even in ah it shouldn't be able to go higher than that.
#2. The battle system, it should go faster, in real life we don't wait 5 or more seconds to swing a sword or stab some one with a dagger. The delay in hitting an oponent is a little bit out of date another thing to look at perhaps make it like the Fishing craft stamina type of thing where the longer you fight the more time between blows happens.
that is about all that I have thought about and thank you.
#1040
Nov 24 2005 at 6:44 PM
6 posts
[deleted by poster]
Edited, Thu Nov 24 18:56:29 2005 by Gregorybetters
Edited, Thu Nov 24 18:56:29 2005 by Gregorybetters
#1041
Nov 24 2005 at 6:49 PM
6 posts
Quote:ME
rare/ex all NM drops
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TomokuTheRDM
Scholar
They did on some. Not all, but some. And on my server the prices of the none Rare/Ex boomed from 900k for Leaping Boots to 3+mil currently. Which is understandable. But for people who aren't great at camping NM's are finding this unfair. But no matter what SE does not everyone will be happy.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:Me
To be honest, alot of aggression in this game atmosphere is similar to the aggression in real life which is caused by money
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TomokuTheRDM
Scholar
I couldn't agree with you more! But, like in RL this issue is down to greed, selfishness and the ecomamey puts too much value on little slips of green paper. But that's life.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Quote: Me
So basically we need a "Roosevelt" to pull off a "New Deal" to put Vana'diel into a recession which would gradually subdue alot of this aggressive behaviour.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TomokuTheRDM
Scholar
As nice as it would be to be hand-in-hand with fellow Vana'diels, everyone smiling at each other, and /em hugs <t>'ing every person that passes.. It will never happen. =(
----------------------------------------------------------------
Response: Me (don't ask me why reply with quote didn't work)
Yes, which is why it needs to be 100%. It was because it was only partially done is what drove the economy into a second crash. Make gil by crafting...don't make it so you need rare nm drops to make the items...those who put the effort into getting thier skills up make the cash.
The world wasn't exactly perfect from the 30's to post WWII either. It takes time, but the game situation can be improved upon with effort and time.
I do have suggestions, but as other people have pointed out, it's possible that square/enix got all the input it wanted. Though it might be possible they are still observing this thread (which would make me wonder why they are not observing the game, haha, just kidding)
Multiply all gil denominations by factor of 10. Think about this carefully before you give the thumbs down on the idea. The NPC market is old and out of date, the prices of the pc market has accelerated far beyond the npc market since 2002, yet the npc market hasn't changed at all. If all gil rewards and expendatures were brought up closer to the current pc market then I believe the relations would improve.
Now granted there are people who profit real money from this game other than SE staff who would not like it if such measures were taken. Infact I don't doubt they would raise prices even futher...but what needs to be realized is that there is a roof as to how high it can go. If SE causes the NPC market to compete with the PC market than the PC market will eventually concede to persue making real money elsewhere. After all, why buy gil when you are given effective means to earn it yourself respectfully, and people like to be respected.
So for starters, multiply everything by ten. Gil prices, gil rewards, current gil everyone has in stock, EVERYTHING. Because if you miss something the plan will fail because you want the association between players who fight mobs or do quests for money and go to npc's to spend it to remain unchanged. We want the NPC market to compete with the PC market, not the PC's.
Edited, Thu Nov 24 18:51:18 2005 by Gregorybetters
Edited, Thu Nov 24 19:05:30 2005 by Gregorybetters
rare/ex all NM drops
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TomokuTheRDM
Scholar
They did on some. Not all, but some. And on my server the prices of the none Rare/Ex boomed from 900k for Leaping Boots to 3+mil currently. Which is understandable. But for people who aren't great at camping NM's are finding this unfair. But no matter what SE does not everyone will be happy.
---------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:Me
To be honest, alot of aggression in this game atmosphere is similar to the aggression in real life which is caused by money
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TomokuTheRDM
Scholar
I couldn't agree with you more! But, like in RL this issue is down to greed, selfishness and the ecomamey puts too much value on little slips of green paper. But that's life.
----------------------------------------------------------------
Quote: Me
So basically we need a "Roosevelt" to pull off a "New Deal" to put Vana'diel into a recession which would gradually subdue alot of this aggressive behaviour.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
TomokuTheRDM
Scholar
As nice as it would be to be hand-in-hand with fellow Vana'diels, everyone smiling at each other, and /em hugs <t>'ing every person that passes.. It will never happen. =(
----------------------------------------------------------------
Response: Me (don't ask me why reply with quote didn't work)
Yes, which is why it needs to be 100%. It was because it was only partially done is what drove the economy into a second crash. Make gil by crafting...don't make it so you need rare nm drops to make the items...those who put the effort into getting thier skills up make the cash.
The world wasn't exactly perfect from the 30's to post WWII either. It takes time, but the game situation can be improved upon with effort and time.
I do have suggestions, but as other people have pointed out, it's possible that square/enix got all the input it wanted. Though it might be possible they are still observing this thread (which would make me wonder why they are not observing the game, haha, just kidding)
Multiply all gil denominations by factor of 10. Think about this carefully before you give the thumbs down on the idea. The NPC market is old and out of date, the prices of the pc market has accelerated far beyond the npc market since 2002, yet the npc market hasn't changed at all. If all gil rewards and expendatures were brought up closer to the current pc market then I believe the relations would improve.
Now granted there are people who profit real money from this game other than SE staff who would not like it if such measures were taken. Infact I don't doubt they would raise prices even futher...but what needs to be realized is that there is a roof as to how high it can go. If SE causes the NPC market to compete with the PC market than the PC market will eventually concede to persue making real money elsewhere. After all, why buy gil when you are given effective means to earn it yourself respectfully, and people like to be respected.
So for starters, multiply everything by ten. Gil prices, gil rewards, current gil everyone has in stock, EVERYTHING. Because if you miss something the plan will fail because you want the association between players who fight mobs or do quests for money and go to npc's to spend it to remain unchanged. We want the NPC market to compete with the PC market, not the PC's.
Edited, Thu Nov 24 18:51:18 2005 by Gregorybetters
Edited, Thu Nov 24 19:05:30 2005 by Gregorybetters
#1042
Nov 25 2005 at 12:29 PM
5 posts
Suggestion: I think the idea of having the mobs wait a couple minutes while returning to their spawn point is an excellent idea. I was speaking with a friend on Thanksgiving day and said that he was camping the NM for Kraken Club and a gilseller came and brought a bunch mobs to them and teleported/warped outta the area (can't remember,he probably died lol) if its an obvious MPK where you have somebody camping an NM or 6 members EXPing and your mobs are not in their normal area, how is that fair at all for people to exp and not get aggrivated with the game? If you can program mobs not to aggro you at a certain level because they read Too Weak, but travel a bit more down a map and will aggro you because they read Easy Prey, it should be possible for you to be able to see that 5 Incredibly Tough mobs are going to absolutely murder an exp party. 2minutes, or letting it get back to its little area where it rests is perfect for avoiding MPKs. Also, the NPC idea is great, if not possible to let an NPC handle his/her business with the mobs, have the NPC snatch that person up and put in /say that he's under arrest and take him straight to the game jail and use the 3 strikes and your out system. (i think this system is why baseball is the national past time lol) 3 strikes your out, you try to keep MPKing you get kicked off the game, I do think that if we started clearing the game of people who have been MPKing like its the morning cup of coffee the game would be more pleasant for everybody. I personally dont' give a **** about gilsellers they can do what they do, its their account, they're paying for the account , and people are buying the stuff they put up in the game and nothing is going to stop that. Gilsellers are just the same as Gilbuyers, some are just fortunate to have one or the other, money on the game, or money in real life. (I unfortunetly am very poor and am accepting donations from anyone in Quetzelcoatl lol)
Sorry for the long probably ill written paragraph but i hope you get what im saying and find the best possible answer to the MPK problem. Thank you for taking the time to read this.
Sorry for the long probably ill written paragraph but i hope you get what im saying and find the best possible answer to the MPK problem. Thank you for taking the time to read this.
#1043
Nov 26 2005 at 4:42 AM
30 posts
I'm Sorry I mean't to reply to this thread but here is a link to my post
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10;mid=113299820380606758;num=0;page=0
A Puller Testomoney
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=10;mid=113299820380606758;num=0;page=0
A Puller Testomoney
#1044
Nov 26 2005 at 4:57 AM
30 posts
Also, If I might add, here is the situation:
A party pulls a mob, a mob spawns right by them...
The parties mage sleeps the mob...
I shoot an arrow intending to liberate the party from the secondary mob and the mob wakes up...
The mob then aggros the person that slept them...
I then have to communicate to my tank that they need to pull the mob that aggro'd the mage of the other persons party...
(this usually takes too long)
Most of the time this is before my mages are satisfied with thier MP but I feel it would be better to try than to let the resistance to sleep kill the other party...
Am I wrong...
Either tell me how to pull or tell me you will fix this because If my wife hits me when I'm asleep I don't care how my night was I go after her!
Eazy (Again) (Hunting)
A party pulls a mob, a mob spawns right by them...
The parties mage sleeps the mob...
I shoot an arrow intending to liberate the party from the secondary mob and the mob wakes up...
The mob then aggros the person that slept them...
I then have to communicate to my tank that they need to pull the mob that aggro'd the mage of the other persons party...
(this usually takes too long)
Most of the time this is before my mages are satisfied with thier MP but I feel it would be better to try than to let the resistance to sleep kill the other party...
Am I wrong...
Either tell me how to pull or tell me you will fix this because If my wife hits me when I'm asleep I don't care how my night was I go after her!
Eazy (Again) (Hunting)
#1045
Nov 26 2005 at 3:57 PM
2 posts
Alright.. So I know alot of my fellow players are very irritated with how the system works.. So I thought I would put my .02 in as well.. Honestly, I think the system is fine.. A bound goblin or monster, SHOULD attack nearby people, its one pissed off mob.. Although, I believe that we should not be fighting for ways to get back at people who MPK or be immune to them, but rather solve the issue that causes people to MPK.. For instance, the number 1 reason Gil sellers and other players MPK is for money.. They are only there to get the money, or hot new Item.. There is something seriously wrong with the item drops in this game.. I've been playing for over 2 years now and not once have I killed something to use the item in an xp party (for the same level). I have a 65 whm Tarutaru and I'm sick of it. There are so many money problems, that if you dont have millions of gil, you dont get anything more but JSE.. how lame is that! Then I decided to give it another shot because someone told me about JSE that was in the CoP area.. Oh goodie.. look.. A pair of SUBLIGAR that dosent even HELP! Whats with that?! White mage needs a serious fixing.. We cant afford to buy things, and we cant kill anything more then Too weaks alone.. in fact.. two Too weak monsters is a scary thing if you have 200 mp as a tarutaru whm! Anyways, back to the point.. While fighting goblins in bibiki bay I was watching what Items they drop and such.. and some of them are worth about 2k.. thats okay... (for a level 10 character).. Then I saw a level 75 goblin drop Shell 1... THIS is the core reason behind the players not having any money! The things we fight for experiance points Do NOT drop anything worthwhile to make profit on! Sure you'll get a few crystals here and there.. and maybe some beetle jaws if you're lucky.. But one can NOT buy new gear off of the items obtained while leveling.. My point in case I havent stated it clearly enough.. Is that people only go after these monsters for money.. not quests.. or anything like that.. MONEY.. The solution for MPK'ing is simple.. Make the enemies that you fight, drop more then gear that is 40 levels below you.. There is nothing more depressing then killing Tough enemies for nothing.. We are Adventurers! We chase the prizes dropped by killing things! And yet.. nothing but these very few monsters drop anything worthwhile...
If you're lazy like me and just want a summery of what I just said..
1) FFXI causes these problems..
2) Fix these problems by adding worthwhile drops to normal monsters IE(a level 50 quadav should not drop a level 4 sword)
3) Give the players shiny things for killing monsters, Getting 12 gil from a level 70+ creep is Depressing!
4) Can't we get some spiffy items from every creature? Why even have NM's.. they seem silly unless they are involved in a specific quest..
Thanks for your time, and let me know what you think.
If you're lazy like me and just want a summery of what I just said..
1) FFXI causes these problems..
2) Fix these problems by adding worthwhile drops to normal monsters IE(a level 50 quadav should not drop a level 4 sword)
3) Give the players shiny things for killing monsters, Getting 12 gil from a level 70+ creep is Depressing!
4) Can't we get some spiffy items from every creature? Why even have NM's.. they seem silly unless they are involved in a specific quest..
Thanks for your time, and let me know what you think.
#1046
Nov 27 2005 at 11:54 AM
3 posts
The main problems with MPK can be solved with what the SE Rep himself said.
1. Make it so mobs will not be able to agro anyone until they are back at their spawn point. So whenever a party gets wiped or zones, their mob(s) dont attack everyone nearby.
2. Make it so that any mob can only attack people in its claimer's party. Would help with the shadowbind MPK where the mob attacks anyone close to it despite lack of hate.
3. Someone else listed this one a few posts after the SE rep's first post and it's a great idea. Make it so that whenever a mob is claimed, all of its prior hate disappears. Many times have I been in a party and have a link. Me being a RDM I would sleep the link. Then another party claims the link with a weak attack or spell so it keeps beating on me for sleeping it while I can't attack or have my party defend me. (Even I myself am guilty of doing this on accident ^^; wrong macro FTL lol)
Now I'm not fully aware of all issues FFXI players are faced with these days so these may or may not work for reasons unknown to me. It's been nearly a year since I've played FFXI but I'm considering rejoining the game which is why I'm at this site :)
Oh, and like other people have said, the main problem is money. Id suggest making all mobs drop items that are just for vendoring (and then make vendors pay better... those cheapskates) This is what World of Warcraft does (*ducks* dont flame me! T.T)and I think it would work in FFXI too. The drops in FFXI need to be improved in general. Only highly camped NMs drop anything valuable or worth using.
Edited, Sun Nov 27 12:14:14 2005 by LillyPendragon
1. Make it so mobs will not be able to agro anyone until they are back at their spawn point. So whenever a party gets wiped or zones, their mob(s) dont attack everyone nearby.
2. Make it so that any mob can only attack people in its claimer's party. Would help with the shadowbind MPK where the mob attacks anyone close to it despite lack of hate.
3. Someone else listed this one a few posts after the SE rep's first post and it's a great idea. Make it so that whenever a mob is claimed, all of its prior hate disappears. Many times have I been in a party and have a link. Me being a RDM I would sleep the link. Then another party claims the link with a weak attack or spell so it keeps beating on me for sleeping it while I can't attack or have my party defend me. (Even I myself am guilty of doing this on accident ^^; wrong macro FTL lol)
Now I'm not fully aware of all issues FFXI players are faced with these days so these may or may not work for reasons unknown to me. It's been nearly a year since I've played FFXI but I'm considering rejoining the game which is why I'm at this site :)
Oh, and like other people have said, the main problem is money. Id suggest making all mobs drop items that are just for vendoring (and then make vendors pay better... those cheapskates) This is what World of Warcraft does (*ducks* dont flame me! T.T)and I think it would work in FFXI too. The drops in FFXI need to be improved in general. Only highly camped NMs drop anything valuable or worth using.
Edited, Sun Nov 27 12:14:14 2005 by LillyPendragon
#1047
Nov 27 2005 at 8:16 PM
Honestly what 9/10 of the people want is WoW's argo system. While WoW isn't the first game to have such an Argo system, it is at this time the most well known.
1) Have the mob run back to position which it first was/did argo a player with no delay. This would happen after argo is lost through all deaths, zoning, or other means of losing argo. This speeds up the mob getting out of the players range and thus making people having easier time getting back to camping, XPing or whatever they were doing.
2) While mobs running back to starting position it is temporarily made ito a non-argoing, non-linking mob. This will prevent massive trains forming when someone has to zone a mob and another party is near zone and gets it as an unneeded add.
3) Mobs linking is fine. If you get adds from a bad pull, there are ways to handle them so this doesn't need adjustments.
4)Have mob AoE's only effect the party in which it is currently fighting so innocent bystanders aren't hurt by it. A goblin bomb, serket AoE, mandie sleep, etc should only effect those who are actually fighting the mob.
1) Have the mob run back to position which it first was/did argo a player with no delay. This would happen after argo is lost through all deaths, zoning, or other means of losing argo. This speeds up the mob getting out of the players range and thus making people having easier time getting back to camping, XPing or whatever they were doing.
2) While mobs running back to starting position it is temporarily made ito a non-argoing, non-linking mob. This will prevent massive trains forming when someone has to zone a mob and another party is near zone and gets it as an unneeded add.
3) Mobs linking is fine. If you get adds from a bad pull, there are ways to handle them so this doesn't need adjustments.
4)Have mob AoE's only effect the party in which it is currently fighting so innocent bystanders aren't hurt by it. A goblin bomb, serket AoE, mandie sleep, etc should only effect those who are actually fighting the mob.
#1048
Nov 28 2005 at 12:41 AM
2 posts
Where to begin? I think before worrying about the MPK system, you should sit down with the Gm's and explain to them that need to hear both sides of a story before accusing people of Mpking. I guess this shouldnt be posted here, but at least someone is listening (i hope.) First off let me tell you about my situation.... WE HAVE RMT'S AND GILSELLERS GALORE ON LEVIATHAN!!! With that said, and this will lead to mpking believe you me. Found out the other day a friend of mine's account was stolen and sold to IGE (for all of you who don't know what IGE is.. its a place where you can buy gil and sell accounts). Went to go help a friend in Qufim Island, and low and behold guess who is in there party.. the person who sold friends account. I dc'ed and when I came back I said "stupid taru" talking about myself but said it out in the open so that person decided to threaten me, harrass me, and use racial slurs ( which I dont not deem appropriate). So needless to say I called a GM. He told me ahem... that this situation would be taken care of. (which was a bunch of bs but I wont go there). So the next day my room-mate was farming, in Yhoatar Jugle off of Goblins, and guess whos there.. the person who stole friends account. Somehow roomie got lagged out and dc'ed, and ended up coming back with people dead, so he raised them all and apologized.. Well the person who stole friends account called a gm, and told them that roomie was MPKing! Gm said he saw what happened, and threw roomie in Mordion Gaol, also again for you all so dont know (mordion gaol is GM JAIL)... GM appeared asked roomie why he thought he was here, and roomie said he got dc'ed and raise everyone and apologized,, GM told roomie that he was suspicious on MPKing. Roomie told him that he was farming, and besides the day before we put in a complaint about the guy who called the GM. Well the GM told roomie, that was no future record of us calling a gm, and that we would have a mark on our account and never to mpk again,,, Roomie told Gm that he knew he was a RMT and stole a friends account, you wanna know what the GM told my roomie? She needs to secure her account better and its pretty much her problem,, so my conclusion is why the heck wont gm's do anything about RMT's and Gilsellers but mark you account for "mpking"??? can someone please tell me? and maybe this person, and "SE" could let me know, even if they dont care ><. Sorry to waste thread space but had to get this off my chest,,, taru huggles Kam
#1049
Nov 28 2005 at 3:34 AM
1 post
SE! you want to know what you should do? MPKing is not the problem the RMT (real money trade or cgf) is the problem. SE has done nothing visible to curve this problem. The servers are full of RMT people and everyone seems to know who they are but the GM's. It's ok though i dont completly blame the RMT people, i blame every single person that has ever bought a single gil for real money! You people are destroying this game. You have created people that SE dosnt care to stop. Lazy people that buy millions of gil are scum. Part of the game is finding ways to make money. Further more the GM's are a joke. When serket (for instance) is claimed by somebody other than the RMT there they will mpk with everything in GC. When the GM is called, minimal or no action is seen, further more if claim is lost to he RMT and they kill serket, the damage is already done and they have obtained millions of gil in drops.
SE you are a bunch of idiots, and all of you that think that taking away mpk's will stop this. RMT have always shown a great deal of ability to come up with new ways to monopolize every major NM on, at least my server, Kujata. Instead of SE dancing around and trying to come up with little temporary solutions (like this MPK thing) they should suck it up and attack the real problem here GILL SELLERS!
Let me spell it out. In my experience MPK's are a result of RMT's 90-95 percent of the time or more.
Eliminate Real money trade > Eliminate MPKing and the 10's of calls you get every day after serket pops and every other major hnm as a matter of fact. Omg i cant believe that SE woudl try to post this thread like they really care and are trying to do something to actually improve the situation in the long run.
SE you are a bunch of idiots, and all of you that think that taking away mpk's will stop this. RMT have always shown a great deal of ability to come up with new ways to monopolize every major NM on, at least my server, Kujata. Instead of SE dancing around and trying to come up with little temporary solutions (like this MPK thing) they should suck it up and attack the real problem here GILL SELLERS!
Let me spell it out. In my experience MPK's are a result of RMT's 90-95 percent of the time or more.
Eliminate Real money trade > Eliminate MPKing and the 10's of calls you get every day after serket pops and every other major hnm as a matter of fact. Omg i cant believe that SE woudl try to post this thread like they really care and are trying to do something to actually improve the situation in the long run.
#1050
Nov 28 2005 at 6:43 AM
11 posts
Wow lots of information here. If SE is still watching this I'd suggest something a little different. Every person in that battle area is wanting a claim. Asside from experience parties. Therefore 2 things are happening:
1# Everyone who wants that claim are going to be spamming their provoke, flash, charm, stun, OMGWTFBBQWAFFLESBARBRASTREISAND, or anything that comes close, at the NM/HNM henceforth reffered to as "mob". Regardless if its claimed, or not. PPL will spam it on the offchance that they get lucky.
2# Anyone who is not interested in the mob will not.
We have an interesting split then. Those that have intent, and those that do not. I'd suggest then that anyone who attempted to claim, regardless if they fail or succeed, are added to the mob's intent list; including anyone who might be in the same party/alliance with them.
I say intent list rather than hate, simply because this would allow those players with intent tags to be affected by AOE.
EG: Mob pops. PPL w/ fast activating abilities all spam the mob. They are added to the intent list simply because they displayed intent to engage said mob. Include everyone else that becomes related to those players, ie: party/alliance members, ppl who offer aid in the form of heals, status cures etc. Stuff that would cause you to take agro under the original system.
Thats a workable solution for the aoe and perhaps even the bind form of MPK. Zoneing on the other hand is a trickier situation. To address the zoning issue. There are a number of situations where things overlap. Zoning a mob by ones self should cause the monster to enter NPC mode. IE unclaimable and unagroable for a period while it makes its way home and then a random duration upon which the mob will lose its "NPC" status allowing others to claim it after. If you zone and happen to be part of a party, it would simply run to attack whoever remains to be killed. This would only be applied to NM/HNM who check "impossible to guage". I dont give a damn about some crawler that you either agroed, or linked, thats trying to eat you while it made its way home.
I would also suggest that NPC mode would cancel the CFH status that ruins so many legit NM/HNM battles.
[Edit: something i noticed particularly with certian mobs is the ability to draw in. Why not make all NM/HNM mobs draw in after a certain distance preventing anyone from zoning. It would force anyone with hate to die, or warp out of the zone leaving it unclaimed for all the rest.]
Just a few suggestions.
1# Everyone who wants that claim are going to be spamming their provoke, flash, charm, stun, OMGWTFBBQWAFFLESBARBRASTREISAND, or anything that comes close, at the NM/HNM henceforth reffered to as "mob". Regardless if its claimed, or not. PPL will spam it on the offchance that they get lucky.
2# Anyone who is not interested in the mob will not.
We have an interesting split then. Those that have intent, and those that do not. I'd suggest then that anyone who attempted to claim, regardless if they fail or succeed, are added to the mob's intent list; including anyone who might be in the same party/alliance with them.
I say intent list rather than hate, simply because this would allow those players with intent tags to be affected by AOE.
EG: Mob pops. PPL w/ fast activating abilities all spam the mob. They are added to the intent list simply because they displayed intent to engage said mob. Include everyone else that becomes related to those players, ie: party/alliance members, ppl who offer aid in the form of heals, status cures etc. Stuff that would cause you to take agro under the original system.
Thats a workable solution for the aoe and perhaps even the bind form of MPK. Zoneing on the other hand is a trickier situation. To address the zoning issue. There are a number of situations where things overlap. Zoning a mob by ones self should cause the monster to enter NPC mode. IE unclaimable and unagroable for a period while it makes its way home and then a random duration upon which the mob will lose its "NPC" status allowing others to claim it after. If you zone and happen to be part of a party, it would simply run to attack whoever remains to be killed. This would only be applied to NM/HNM who check "impossible to guage". I dont give a damn about some crawler that you either agroed, or linked, thats trying to eat you while it made its way home.
I would also suggest that NPC mode would cancel the CFH status that ruins so many legit NM/HNM battles.
[Edit: something i noticed particularly with certian mobs is the ability to draw in. Why not make all NM/HNM mobs draw in after a certain distance preventing anyone from zoning. It would force anyone with hate to die, or warp out of the zone leaving it unclaimed for all the rest.]
Just a few suggestions.
#1051
Nov 28 2005 at 12:43 PM
Having just come back from vacation (Thanks giving) and having a pile of work on my desk. I haven't taken the time to read every post and apologize if my comments are redundant.
First off, I would like to comment that even though this is a fantasy game, there are priciples that should be met to make it as real as possible. One of them being that if you are in a dungeon, and a monster runs by, it should by all means agro you and try to kill you, no matter what the situation. Dungeons are dangerous. You take a chance going into them and playing on the monsters turf.
Now with that said, I understand that MPK is an issue to some, and here are my suggestions to try and control the problem.
1. Keep MOBS on a short leash. Allow them to chase someone up to a certain length, (say an average pull to camp distance). After that, the mob will automatically warp back to its spawn point. This would prevent someone from A. Making a huge zone wide train. B. Dumping that train onto someone farther away.
2. Only allow AOE to hit party members of those who have claim to the said MOB.
3. Once a MOB is agroed and draws links, have the MOBS concentrate soley on the intial person who agroed it until either provoked or attacked by another person. Not lose interest in the intial person and attack a whm who happens to be curing someone in their non related party.
4. Once a MOB is "Released" using the BST job ability. Have it stay non agro to everyone but the BST for a full 60 seconds, allowing people to clear the area if they find it in there agro range.
Just my quick two cents.
V
First off, I would like to comment that even though this is a fantasy game, there are priciples that should be met to make it as real as possible. One of them being that if you are in a dungeon, and a monster runs by, it should by all means agro you and try to kill you, no matter what the situation. Dungeons are dangerous. You take a chance going into them and playing on the monsters turf.
Now with that said, I understand that MPK is an issue to some, and here are my suggestions to try and control the problem.
1. Keep MOBS on a short leash. Allow them to chase someone up to a certain length, (say an average pull to camp distance). After that, the mob will automatically warp back to its spawn point. This would prevent someone from A. Making a huge zone wide train. B. Dumping that train onto someone farther away.
2. Only allow AOE to hit party members of those who have claim to the said MOB.
3. Once a MOB is agroed and draws links, have the MOBS concentrate soley on the intial person who agroed it until either provoked or attacked by another person. Not lose interest in the intial person and attack a whm who happens to be curing someone in their non related party.
4. Once a MOB is "Released" using the BST job ability. Have it stay non agro to everyone but the BST for a full 60 seconds, allowing people to clear the area if they find it in there agro range.
Just my quick two cents.
V
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