Suggestions for changing the MPK systemFollow

Make more forced pop or Instanced NMs

Huge time pop HNMs and grievously horrible drop rate NMs that are based on timers are where 99% of MPK activity is taking place. Also, timed HNMs and NMs prevent casual players from participating activley in these battles, because whereas a forced NM can be organized, you can not always rely on people to be willing to sit at their computers for 6 hours waiting for a Dragon to appear, only to watch as its claimed a full 20 seconds before its loaded on your monitor because there are 95+ people in the zone, then watch as everyone trys to mpk eachother.

With the increasing high end population, timer based HNMs are become exceedingly problimatic, I understand that Square-Enix is trying to take a more active role in the community. I would like to address a quote from a recent interview with head [GM] Sage Sundi.



This is the style of play im talking about, its not bad, I dont neccesarily disrespet anyone who follows this style, I would if I didnt have more important things to worry about like school etc. But haijin causes a lot of problems, especially because so very very few people ever get anything good out of it, and end up venting their frustrations in a violent manner like MPK. So I think it would be great for a change to be made to this.

My suggestions:

o When a BST changes pets (from pet A to pet B), let the original mob stay claimed that the person was attacking with when he/she switches to pet B.

o Bind should only let the mob attack any character that the mob has hate with (ie. the person who claimed, party/alliance members, outside people who cure). Any passerby or nearby people should not be attacked.

o All mobs moved significantly outside of their range should return to their original location after it has exhausted its hate with party/alliance members. During this time, the mob should return asap and have a 20 second cool down timer before it becomes an active mob. This especially applies to slower (*cough* Ghosts in Kuftal *cough*) mobs that takes a while to return. While returning to their original spawn location, it will not aggro any other people along the way.

o Mob(s) that have been zoned by someone can not be claimed by the person/party/alliance members who have zoned the mob(s) for 60 seconds after returning to the zone unless the mob engages them. Likewise, a person/party/alliance member can be the only persons who can aggro a mob returning to their home point.

o In highly contended HNM areas. A person who has been reported as a known MPKer should be flagged. As more and more known MPKers appear in a zone near the HNM's pop time, an SE official should silently watch the battle. This will protect people in case an MPK attempt occurs and known MPKers can be removed from the game

Seems like a big one too me. As well as saying that trained mobs don't become aggrssive again until a certain point, whether that's them returned their initial spawn point or not I don't know.

AoE doesn't bother me all too often, I say leave it.

I'ld say that rather than having a mob return all the way to it's starting point that it should be able to aggro/link again once it gets within a certain distance of it's starting point. It would be kinda bad if something capable of spike flail kills the tank, then turns around to go back to it's starting point.

How would the 'released beastmaster pets can't aggro anyone else' thing work? Currently, released beastmaster pets return to their normal state (aka give xp if you kill them) once they've recovered their HP. Would they no longer be counted as 'released' pets once they're at full HP? Would they also have to return to their starting point, or some proximity to their starting point before being capable of aggroing/linking again?

The 'released beastmaster pet' thing I think could be easily abused (not for MPK) for purposes of setting up mobs in bizar paterns and eliminating aggro from otherwise unusable camps. Same thing with forcing mobs to return to their starting possition before being capable of aggroing/linking. The scenerio I see is basically:

1)Get to some spot where there are a bunch of aggroing/linking mobs.

2)The thief shoots one on the far side, hits flee and runs to the zone.

3)Now that the mobs are out of possition it's safe for the thief (or /thief) to re-enter the zone (since they won't aggro/link until they're back in possition).

4)Return to camp, and then pull one at a time from the huge train of otherwise linking mobs until they get close enough to their starting spots

5)Repeat.

Similarly, beastmasters could use this to get mobs into a non-linking state.

Suggestions:

Monsters' ashould have altered aggressive behavior after the BST power "leave" is used.

Using "Leave" on aggressive monsters is still the major and most effective means of MPK. After being told to "leave" these monsters should be programmed to either have a significant period during which they are docile, or return to their spawn point.

It might also make sense to remove the ability to use "leave" on aggressive monsters. BST will really not like this, but if aggressive monsters had accumulated enmity against the BST after "leave" was used then they would not be usable for MPK. This would make using "leave" on an aggressive pet identical to a lapsed charm- the monster is no longer your pet, but is actively aggressive against you.

Monsters that Link should have a fixed number of other monsters that will link with them.

For instance, goblins in Yuhtunga Jungle will link, but after four goblin's have linked together, no more will do so. There is some realism in this since a goblin that saw an adventurer running away from four other goblins may feel the situation is already taken care of.

This will prevent (or at least slow the process of) massive groups of monsters being brought to a zone, it will also prevent high level farmers from gathering every single mob of a particular type from a zone in order to AoE farm them for drops, thus making it hard for people trying to gain XP to find targets.

Another option would be to make monsters automatically enter a "called for help" state after a certain number of them link together. This would prevent "train farming" since a payer that gathered too many monsters together would not be able to get any drops, and it would also allow large groups of players at a zone to at least retaliate against any monsters that were there. I have personally never seen a train at the Yuhtunga jungle zone that could not have been taken care of by the parties there, if they would have gotten together and coordinated their attacks.

Restrict the movement of certain monsters with levels much greater than others in a zone

This will prevent certain monsters which have a level FAR greater than other monsters in an area from wreaking havoc on players when used for MPK.

A classic example would be Marauder Dvogzog in West Ronfaure. Many people have spawned him and dragged him to the zone line of San'Doria just to watch him slaughter new players. You can find plenty of stories about this on his monster description on Allakhazam..

This would create an additional problem, in that players fighting the monster could move outside of its "territory" and kill it with ranged attacks or spells while safe from retaliation. In Marauder's case he could simply be programmed to despawn should any player with "claim" on him leave his "territory." Other regular monsters like this (like the Kraken in Quifim island) could simply be programmed to despawn and immediately respawn at full health at their original location to prevent this type of abuse.

Areas with large level ranges of monsters (Crawler's Nest) could be limited in a similar way- there could be areas that the higher level crawlers do not exit, thus preventing them getting trained to the zone line. This kind of level restricted movement could have certain realism (it could be explained that the more powerful knight crawlers will not get too far away from the vital center of the hive)

Combined with the "automatically called for help" system suggested above this could make it so that players at a zone line with a train would not be completely spared from all trouble, but would at least have the ability to get together and deal with the problem.

Fix the hate/agro/enmity system of bind/shadowbind as has been suggested.

Lengthen the time that a character is immune to agro after zoning.

This is to allow players enough time to load a zone and assess the situation there before being subject to monster attacks. When a zone line is crowded with monsters load times can increase so much that a character dies before their player really realizes what is going on. In order to prevent abuse of this system players could be made subject to agro after a certain distance into the zone, regardless of any time remaining on such a timer.

Monsters should only be allowed to have enmity against players that have claim on them.

If claims change, all enmity should be eliminated. This would prevent the "change of claim, remaining agro" that has been mentioned at HNM camps. It may create a loophole in which HNM fighters would allow one group with too much enmity to deliberately loose claim in order to reset enmity, but most HNM camps are flooded with competition and such a tactic would carry too much risk of losing the monster to another group.

Create a delay before monsters go unclaimed.

Many players attempt MPK by dragging an aggressive monster on top of other players and deliberately dying to the monster. This would allow players in the area additional time to react to the situation. In the case of HNM camps it would also allow a group that suffered a "wipe" a small period of time to get the situation under control before another group was allowed to take claim of the HNM.

If an HNM in this state could be claimed by anyone that had emnity towards the HNM, and all the players in a particular linkshell were smart enough to have /blockaid on (to prevent third parties from gaining hate by curing those fighting), this would allow anyone who had been fighting the HNM a small period of time to regain claim on the HNM despite the fact that people currently in the fighting alliance had been wiped out. Though this would partly eliminate the natural consequences of losing a monster your group couldn't handle, it would also help prevent people from getting drops off HNMs that have been seriously weakened by another group.

Most of these suggestions boil down to "give players enough time to react to MPK attempts." This puts the burden of avoiding MPK on the players themselves.

Edited, Thu Nov 3 18:31:16 2005 by Kiyokatsu

Suggestion: Do this more often

Yeah! S/E in the house!

My only suggestion would be to try some of the things posted here and see if they have the intended results without creating new issues.

Also, thanks to S/E for sending someone out to the "field" to get player feedback. You also might try sending some people (GM's)into Vana'diel to ask this question of players in-game.

Suggestion: After a monster is left alone in an area away from his post, allow it to return home quickly rather than gradually as they do now. After he is unclaimed and heading back, give a 10 second or so window in which it will not agro or link. This way it will move out of MPK victim's way before it has a chance to become agressive. This would not completely eliminate MPK, but would at least make it more difficult. The prospective victim would have time to recognize the attempt and make evasive plans as well.

Suggestion: I also think that major NM's names should be kept from turning unclaimed so easily. Perhaps when it would usually be ready to go unclaimed, give the players who have it 5 more seconds to interact with the mob in some fassion that keeps their claim from dropping?


I hope my humble suggestions come of some use. :)

Edited, Thu Nov 3 16:46:56 2005 by Kainminter

TravestyOfAsura wrote:


Well, don't make it that new type of mobs spawn then. Just make the original ones that vanishes repops at a different location. With this, you can't cheat on lottery pops anymore. ^^

Hi,
I know this is very off topic, but do you know if they are planning on improving Paladin, or "Gimping" Ninja? I'am a 75 Paladin and have been playing Paladin for about 20 months now. Right now Ninjas are the primary tank in the game because they take much less damage and keep hate just as well if not better due to their very high damage output at higher levels. As a paladin, i pretty much just back up healing while watching a ninja take over my job. Yes, a Paladin can keep more hate the a ninja, but what is the point of all that hate if you can't even survive the beating? For example, from the gods in Tu'lia, i get hit for about ~150 to ~200 damage while a ninja will recieve no damage because of shadows and high evasion(White mages love ninja for this fact, and put Paladins down)

Why Ninja is an overpowered job: Ninjas are able to tank much better than a paladin. They have shadows combined with high evasion to take 0% damage. A Paladin can have as much defense and Vit he wants, but it will never absorb 100% of the damage being dealt to you.
While someone could say "well, ninjas can't keep as much hate as paladin", you maybe right, but in all truth they keep much more hate at higher levels because of their extremely high damage output which may actually be the highest in the game.
Proof: A ninja duel wielding DMG:39 katanas has the same delay as my 1-handed sword with Delay:240; DMG:40. So they pretty much have a 1-hand sword with DMG:78. If you add up the damage done by a ninja after a darknight has swung once with his DMG:97 scythe, a ninja will techniccaly have a Great type weapon with DMG:180 ( Does this seem fair to you?). So you can say that a ninja will do twice as much damage as a darknight(which is significantly more than any other job in the game can do). Plus their Blade:jin can reach over 1000 points of damage on exp mobs. This very high damage output makes them keep more hate than a paladin can. Oh, and may i remind you that they are doing this much damage while tanking AND enfeebing at the same time. NINJA IS ALSO THE ONLY JOB IN THIS GAME WITH FIVE, THAT'S RIGHT, FIVE (A) SKILLS.

Why Paladin should be improved: Paladin is a fun job to play, but in my opinion it is very outdated. A Paladin was created as a "tank" no? Then why is it that in most situations, a ninja is almost always a better and more efficient tank even though they probably weren't meant to tank? A war/nin can take less damage than a paladin can because of shadows, as well as keep good hate. With food, good gear, Protect, Defender, and Sentinel, my defense exceeds 750 (with 73+51 VIT) but yet, i still take more damage than a ninja and is less efficent because while i drain more MP than a ninja from mages, im dealing next to zero damage while a nin/war or a war/nin can tank more efficiently and deal high amounts of damage. (I usually tell mages not to cure me till i' am out of MP)

Ways of improving Paladin: These are just a few ways i think Paladin could be improved (I'm not saying that all of these should be added, maybe just one or two, or something so innovative that only one thing will be needed)

a.) Job trait that gives similiar effects as the Earth Staff will give. (but not as much of course...)
b.) Increase HP/MP
c.) Create new high defense armor with refresh.
d.) Job trait that will decrease dissolve rate of enmity, or just plain increase enmity so a paladin could focus more on armor with higher defense/vit.
e.) Create new Job ability similiar to "Soul Eater", (Drains 5% of Paladin's MP per hit while taking 50% physical Damage)

Please read this post and put some consideration into what i'am saying. Thank You~

P.S. - I know im gonna get rated down from this, and i don't care at all, rate me down all you want, but what i have said today is 100% true with proof. Give me your opinion about the subject, DO NOT GIVE ME AN OPINION ABOUT MY OPINION, and do not scan what i wrote for the smallest mistake and flame me for it because you have nothing better to say. Ex. "You're really stupid, and probably a crappy paladin (trust me im not), so before you make yourself look like a COMPLETE ******, know your stuff (coming from a Paladin47/Warrior14)"

I don't want to make it seem like I'm ignoring other issues or posts, but for today I'm here only to speak about the MPK situation and gameplay.

I'm sorry that I'm not able to respond to every single post about other areas of the gameplay or what jobs need to be "nerfed" or what jobs need to be boosted.

Please, please, please keep it on topic for now. I know that everyone has many things that they would like to talk about, but the reason I'm here at this moment is for the MPK discussion.

Thanks for understanding! Focusing on these posts alone will keep me busy for some time! :)

Amen.

~Blix