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Chocobo bug: Sleeping Beauties (Warning about Resting)Follow

#102 Aug 31 2006 at 9:10 PM Rating: Decent
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1,245 posts
Quote:
I fully expect that if you ever purchase a defective vehicle which results in some catastrophic failure you'll take the stance that you've never created the perfect car, defect-free, so you can't blame the manufacturer. What idiotic logic. In the real world, services and commodities are bought and paid for with the expectations that they work as stated, since the consumers rely on the provider's expertise in their field or in the manufacturing of a product.

People purchased the game and pay a monthly fee and should receive a quality piece of software. It would be one thing if a typo slipped by, but time and again there have been major issues that have impacted huge segments of the population. If SE continually has a habit of releasing bug-filled updates, then obviously SE is at fault for not hiring enough competent testers to ensure simple bugs like a chocobo falling asleep seemingly indefinitely are discovered pre-release and fixed.

It's attitudes like yours which allows the software industry to release shoddy products with a "sell now, fix later" approach.


QFT!

Someone had to say it.
#103 Aug 31 2006 at 9:25 PM Rating: Decent
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67 posts
For anyone worried about their chocobo sleeping, mine was stuck in a sleep cycle before the "white handkerchief/crying all night" thing, so its been sleeping longer than most. But today it DID wake up.. it was starving, it had no energy, and it lost affection for me like nuts and barely liked me in the end, but it did wake up and I'm nurturing it back to full everything now.

I'm glad its finally awake.

Edited, Aug 31st 2006 at 10:31pm EDT by karmakina
#104 Aug 31 2006 at 10:49 PM Rating: Decent
I dunno what to do, it never told me the "Your chocobo wakes every morning." thing, but it's long past the handkerchief event in its totality. All I can do is wait til tomorrow :x I sent in a Support mail, but they just auto-replied with BS from their FAQ that has nothing to do with chocobos >.>
#105 Aug 31 2006 at 11:13 PM Rating: Good
After four days of my chocobo being asleep with no energy whatsoever, she was awake when I went to check on her today. So I don't know if SE did some tweaking or whatever but she did end up waking up. Figured you guys would want to know.
#106 Aug 31 2006 at 11:22 PM Rating: Good
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1,387 posts
Thanks for all the info-- I hope support fixes that for you.

For those who have been told the system is behaving normally, I did this test (thanks to Av for lending me her photobucket) now that I've installed fraps...

http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i292/avhmia/Choco%20narcolepsy%20test/?action=view&current=chocotest1.jpg
http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i292/avhmia/Choco%20narcolepsy%20test/?action=view&current=chocotest2.jpg
http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i292/avhmia/Choco%20narcolepsy%20test/?action=view&current=chocotest3.jpg
http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i292/avhmia/Choco%20narcolepsy%20test/?action=view&current=chocotest4.jpg
http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i292/avhmia/Choco%20narcolepsy%20test/?action=view&current=chocotest5.jpg



A chick, freshly hatched, never fed, not set to Resting, left with as close to 0 energy as I could get it, did not go to sleep on its own the next day even though Basic Care should have drained its energy. Though starving, the energy drain is minimal, and can barely be seen on the chick's energy bar.

So don't feel like it's your fault. It's not.

[edit: stupid bbcode tag]



Edited, Sep 1st 2006 at 12:26am EDT by Aloof
#107 Aug 31 2006 at 11:49 PM Rating: Decent
Noureddin wrote:
What pisses me off most is that WE or EVERYONE THAT PLAYS this pays 14$ or 15$ and not just that they havn't fix gil selling STILL and also the player problem that most people deine! i pay 15$ a month and also people would reply "Then dont play it" well i dont see why i cant! its dumb its a game, if the game is bad and corrupted and still people play it then that should be against the law WTF its called a scam! if the game is not suitable and not just that they make reall money from fake money why is this allowed we all pay money WTF


WTF??? Sorry dude but,....
#108 Sep 01 2006 at 12:06 AM Rating: Decent
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1,387 posts
Hey look! Even after spending days looking like she had 0 energy (which made me fear her plans would be unsuccessful), Max is on par with other chicks raised at her time-- and in excellent condition!

So the plans weren't actually unsuccessful maybe? Dunno! But for those of you worried about a retarded choco after several days asleep-- some minor hope.

[edit: I will eventually figure out tagging things from photobucket properly :-p]



Edited, Sep 1st 2006 at 1:11am EDT by Aloof
#109 Sep 01 2006 at 3:46 AM Rating: Decent
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564 posts
Despite the GMs saying there was a problem, reading the current reports, I am beginning to think it isn't a bug. Instead it looks an aspect of sleeping that we just haven't figured out yet. I don't mean we don't understand the care-plan, I mean we don't understand the full consequences of the rest bit on it.
No matter whether or not it is a bug, I think we should try and find what triggers the start, and what triggers the end, in the only way regular players have to figure out anything about FFXI: Collecting and processing data. I'll keep recording my findings in my Chocobo Diary.
I will be careful with Royal Flurry, but I think that once he is out of the raising process, I will go over the data collected till then and raise me another chocobo testing the theories out at that time. I know I am no good at analyzing data, so I will leave that to others, while I only contribute a record of my own doings/results.

As for the "I pay $13 so why can't they make it perfect" and comparing software to cars, I feel the need to stress that a piece of computer software is much more complex than a car. In fact, there are mathematicians that can show that any program of over 10000 lines (and trust me, that is a small program) has an unlikely small chance of not having at least one imperfection. I am guessing at the the number of lines in FFXI, but I expect it to be 5 million at least. I base this on my personal experience as a programmer, taking into account the development time of FFXI. If anyone is interested in such things, look up the websites of mathemtics and information technology departments of universities. I'm sure there will be some serious reading on this topic there.
Comparing this to a car? Like cars are always made without imperfections? I see messages of recalls every now and then. And since the introduction of computers to control cars, I even see cars that need a reset. If cars aren't perfect, don't expect the more complex computer software to be.
I think Nourredin should really stop playing. His disappointment doesn't mean I (and others with me) am disappointed. As far as I can tell the game isn't bad an corrupted. SE does their best to fix problems as they are found, which is all we can expect of them. Really, if he thinks he has (or should have) legal problems with FFXI, he should quit. Or rather, he should have quit already.
#110 Sep 01 2006 at 8:20 AM Rating: Decent
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1,387 posts
Why wouldn't it be a bug?

How do you explain:
1) Nobody can seem to make it happen in a repeatable way
2) The proposed design makes no sense as described by those who say it's built into the system.
3) Nothing in the documentation supports the idea that this is how it's designed.
4) The only reliable way to free the choco from the system now is to contact tech support-- even the hanky message isn't 100 percent.

I'm still waiting to see how anybody comes to the conclusion that it is anything BUT a bug, except by making things up. See above pictures. Choco drained of energy to the utmost, never fed, does not fall asleep.

Why would it be worse to REST your choco in this situation than NOT to?

Why would the chocos spontaneously recover while on Music and Basic Care plans?

Why would a choco which has been starving for 3 days suddenly recover and present starving with a full energy bar when it has been on the same Music plan as it was a previous day (as some have described) when it did not wake up?

If the choco ending the day starving, asleep, with no energy, and not on Rest plan would stay asleep the next day, then the sleeping chocos not placed back on Rest plan should never wake up.

[PS: Don't worry about the auto-reply, that's built into the system. Basically they just tell you tech support can't individually reply to problems.]

Edited, Sep 1st 2006 at 9:25am EDT by Aloof
#111 Sep 01 2006 at 10:06 AM Rating: Decent
Aloof, I'm calling the ASPCA on you for Chocobo cruelty. ;.;

;)
#112 Sep 01 2006 at 10:08 AM Rating: Decent
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1,387 posts
; ; But it was for science!

Damn... now I gotta stop putting mascara on all those rarabs too.

(that one was just for fun.)
#113 Sep 01 2006 at 10:09 AM Rating: Decent
Aloof wrote:
Damn... now I gotta stop putting mascara on all those rarabs too.


omg... it's worse than I thought.

I obviously need to bomb your mog house and set all of the animals free.

I shudder to think what you're doing to that poor moogle...
#114 Sep 01 2006 at 10:19 AM Rating: Decent
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1,387 posts
The moogle's the lab assistant ;) I can't ever catch rarabs on my own, anybody who's ever seen me trying to level greatsword knows that ;) Not good to shoot your lab rarabs with arrows after all.

And I don't want to {Charm} them and be one of those irritating guys with tiny little fruity pets. :-p (Doesn't get much fruitier than bunnies in makeup, unless you're convincing hunters it's duck season)

K... need to open a window, think the varnish fumes are getting to me ;)
#115 Sep 01 2006 at 12:22 PM Rating: Decent
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233 posts
Update on my chocobo:

Checked it last night before bed, it took another walk in town with the trainer and was promptly asleep AGAIN for the 5th day. Still starving and "doesn't care for me now". *sigh* Debating on if my baby is stuck in this loop forever and if I should just start over..

I did do a bug report, got a email stating "they'd look into it".
#116 Sep 01 2006 at 12:25 PM Rating: Decent
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1,387 posts
Don't lose hope, a cupid worm will restore its affection greatly, and just spending a day in Watch Over mode will help too. Usually people get a fix from tech support on the next report they get, 1 day after contacting technical support with a bug report. It took me an additional day before Max woke up.

Good news though, I posted a pic above-- Max doesn't seem to have suffered any ill effects from her 4 days passed out. She got the 'receptive' message on the same game day as Ninja Foot, who has not had any coma problems, and is in 'Excellent Condition' one day later.

[edit: line breaks are good.]

Edited, Sep 1st 2006 at 1:26pm EDT by Aloof
#118 Sep 01 2006 at 2:25 PM Rating: Decent
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1,049 posts
has anyone received the message "your chcobo has NOT been waking every morning" and then have their choco go into the coma?

it's weird because when i put mine to sleep (2nd day after egg hatch) I got the message "You choco IS waking every morning" and never had a problem. And i have 3 times gotten the perky choco message "Your choco seems to be high spirits" but only after the waking up every morning.

others seem to wake up after the message "Your choco is waking every morning" Apparently this message has a reset effect causing the choco to come out of the coma. I wonder if your choco is suppose to do this, only not stay sleep all day.

For isntance, you get message "Your choco is NOT waking every morning" so when you first check your choco, it is sleep. When you do a care plan, like watch over it, its suppose to wake up. OR When you first check the choco it is sleep. maybe a few hours RL later it is suppose to wake up.

Maybe it's suppose to that until you get message "it's been waking every morning" then with each status report, he is awake. maybe THAT'S the bug.
#119 Sep 01 2006 at 2:27 PM Rating: Decent
I have never gone to the stables and had my chocobo asleep.

Is that something that happens only when you use the "rest" care plan?
#120 Sep 01 2006 at 2:27 PM Rating: Decent
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1,387 posts
I actually can't remember encountering a 'not waking every morning' message. I'll keep a close watch on Air Express to see if I get one.
#121 Sep 01 2006 at 2:37 PM Rating: Decent
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1,049 posts
I remember in one of these threads a couple people saying they got the "choco NOT waking every morning" and theirs are in comas

maybe that's why some GM's mean when they say "not waking up on time" and why other GM's say "it's not a problem at all"

Some GM's may see it as "they got a message saying their choco wasnt waking up - what's the problem?" and others see it as "its not suppose to stay sleep THAT long"
#122 Sep 01 2006 at 3:04 PM Rating: Good
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1,387 posts
I've never seen a transcript of a GM saying it's not a problem at all, so I wouldn't phrase that as a quote. Thing is, if you tell a GM:

"I set my chocobo to resting yesterday and then it spent the day asleep today"

or something along those lines, then they will tell you that it's not a problem and that you're not understanding the care system. It really depends on how the question is phrased.

It's the same as how someone managed to (out of context) get one of the GMs to say fraps was bannable-- when the GM asked what fraps was and they said, 'It's a third-party program that lets you take screenshots.' We know fraps is not actually third-party, it's not a party to the agreement because it doesn't interact with the POL software.

Ask the question with the wrong information and you get the wrong answer.

But I went to great lengths (see page 2) to clarify this after people started saying GMs were telling them it was not a bug. And it was confirmed as a known issue. I asked her if this was the way the sleep function was supposed to work. She said there was a known issue regarding some chocobos not waking up on time. Not everybody who has a chocobo asleep has the bug so of course she's going to say 'this could be the problem', because she's not tech support and she can't see what they can. I emailed tech support, and two days later, my chocobo was released. Whether the waking message was a coincidence due to a lot of tech support emails going off at the same point in the process or not I don't know.

I urge anybody with a choco in this state who is confused to go ahead and talk to a GM, describe exactly what's happening and ask if it's supposed to happen. Ask them if it's a bug or not. That's all it takes. I wish like hell I'd known I needed to install fraps rather than rely on alt-printscreen but if you really think I'm lying about this just go ahead and find out for yourself.

Just do me a favour and quit hinting at it based on nothing more than people pulling information out of their imaginations, k? Because it just breaks my brain that imaginary info > real info. *headache*
#123 Sep 01 2006 at 3:39 PM Rating: Decent
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1,056 posts
My chocobo woke up when I got home from work last night! He fell asleep monday morning and woke up thursday night. Yay, now he isn't starving anymore. He looked pretty happy to be awake, too. I'm going to feed him plenty of coffee and chocolate and make sure that he never ever goes to sleep again.
#125 Sep 01 2006 at 9:43 PM Rating: Default
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2,196 posts
From the 3 pages choc full of info, I have come to a conclusion -

This is your chocobo either faced with fatigue/stress or the handkerchief quest.

Get over it. (Don't Flame Me If I'm Wrong <.<)
#126 Sep 01 2006 at 11:26 PM Rating: Good
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1,387 posts
I'm not gonna flame you, but I am going to expect you and everyone else saying this to apologize when you find out you're wrong. Especially to those of us who stuck our neck out and asked the GMs.

And I'm gonna keep posting evidence to the contrary.

The strange result of this test has actually been that Air Express seems much more advanced than chocos we raised normally but left with 1/3 energy at night thinking that we were overstressing them. He got messages on day 6 we didn't get on other chocos until day 10. Possibly from spamming 'watch over'? Dunno.

http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i292/avhmia/Choco%20narcolepsy%20test/?action=view&current=chocotest6.jpg

Once again he is sent to bed with 0 energy. For this part of the test he is fed before night since several chocos have gone into this 'coma' state with full bellies.

http://s75.photobucket.com/albums/i292/avhmia/Choco%20narcolepsy%20test/?action=view&current=chocotest7.jpg

Since the comatose chocos are waking up without having been fed, since they can't be fed, feeding shouldn't affect the so-called 'stress and fatigue' people keep claiming are to blame for comatose chocobos.

Obviously he has not done the hanky quest, but none of the people in my linkshell who refused to rest their chocos had any trouble getting that quest, nor have their chocos fallen asleep.

Tomorrow night, assuming he has not fallen asleep spontaneously, he will end the day starving despite that being a stupid thing to blame for chocobo coma. I don't want to do it to him, given that it's not a sensible idea-- plus he's proving to be such a prodigy. But I will, for the sake of fighting for fact > fiction.

[edit: ***** it. Having slept on it, I'm tired of people coming in saying, 'I'm going to pretend you're an idiot or lying but don't get mad about it.' If you can't even read enough to see that there's been a nicely phrased request to cut that crap out, and OMG MUST come into a bug thread saying 'there's no bug', you deserve to be called stupid.]

Edited, Sep 2nd 2006 at 10:14am EDT by Aloof
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