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Gardening Ban Criteria?Follow

#27 Jul 07 2009 at 7:07 AM Rating: Good
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wadus wrote:
Fair enough Acturus, I will stop telling people they shouldn't insult me and the others who have been banned for nothing. But please, people, go somewhere else if you don't believe us because I don't need your negativity on top of this whole situation.


Believe you me, I'm just as vested in your outcome as you are. Just remember that the forums are what they are, and they are not always these bastions of safety and support. Take things with a grain of salt.
#28 Jul 07 2009 at 7:17 AM Rating: Good
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Number of Mules? 15, only 14 of them garden though.

Level of Mules? Up to level 5 (Bonanza requirement last time round)

Location? Split fairly evenly between the nations.

Character race/Model? All races and models.

Harvest sent or self sold? All sent to main so I can get a fractionally higher price for max fame.

Mule names? All very similar, each one begins with "Gra"

Banned? Not yet but I've not had a chance to log on today so it's entirely possible I'll log on to see an LM-17 notice. I'll be exceedingly annoyed if I do.
#29 Jul 07 2009 at 7:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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2,056 posts
Now I am offended. I detest RMTs and I detest people who use bots, exploits etc. My gosh, I even hate pling. How far from being RMT can you ask for?
#30 Jul 07 2009 at 7:22 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
It seems to be people who were gardening out of a closed system, using wildgrass seeds to grow more seeds and crystals to feed them. The result was a self perpetuating system of junk that could be NPC'd with nothing more than a few minutes of effort a day.

Square doesn't mind gardening on a small scale, or from characters that were gardening using external sources for materials (haven't heard of any people banned who were going after gold nuggets or lightning ore yet, since those sorts of things required external ingredients.)

I expect a nerf of a few gardening recipes in the next update.


So they could keep gardening in an endless cycle, producing minimal gil/mule 10-40k a round. Big deal, with maxed mules thats what 160k-400k a round?

SE designed the game to be a time sink. A total pain in the ***. Crafting is dying if not totally dead. Fishing still seems decent, but its hours of bordum for mimimal reward. All this round of bannings will do, for the most part, is stop people from buying FFXIV.

Cheers.


Edited, Jul 8th 2009 8:36am by arrghhhh
#31 Jul 07 2009 at 7:26 AM Rating: Decent
arrghhhh wrote:
All this round of bannings will do, for the most part, is stop people from buying FFIV.Cheers.


Yeah, with the recent annoyances from the game (ffxi) I've been having. I'm really thinking about if I should switch to FFXIV when it comes out or just stop mmorpging altogether.
#32 Jul 07 2009 at 7:31 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:

SE designed the game to be a time sink. A total pain in the ***. Crafting is dying if not totally dead. Fishing still seems decent, but its hours of bordum for mimimal reward. All this round of bannings will do, for the most part, is stop people from buying FFIV.


Crafting/fishing is not dead, but it is not an instant get rich scheme -- which people wanted it to be. I know people that are able to do much better than what I am doing (may be like 20-30k / hour) -- they are like cloftcrafters, and I am cook and fishermen. The cost to get to 100 clothcrafting is however, far higher than I playing cooking and fishing.

Even for gardening for gil, it is not an instant rich scheme. It takes time to wait stuff to grow, and not all harvest is good (you are basically playing with average yield Smiley: smile).

Edited, Jul 7th 2009 11:32am by scchan
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#33 Jul 07 2009 at 7:43 AM Rating: Decent
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With all of the bannings and widespread gardening going on, exactly how much can you make per mule per month doing this?
#34 Jul 07 2009 at 7:47 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
That is why this is clearly a technical and honest mistake.

I don't see how this is "clearly" anything. Apart from a post in late 2008 bragging about how they'd automated much of their anti-RMT countermeasures, we have no idea whatsoever how they go about sorting the RMT from the legit players from their POV. I've been in enough bureaucratic organizations in my life to know that bad direction can result in human beings making otherwise incomprehensibly bad decisions.

Quote:
This is like Swine Flu. People are paranoid about it, it is all over the news... but is eh.... nothing more worse than just a simple flu. The misbanning, even it sucks, is far from terrible than it is actually perceived, and will get addressed in time.

I wish I had your faith in an anonymous, secretive, frankly gestapo-like organization to do the right thing. On what basis do you assume that anything at all will be addressed in time?

The fact that the STF is under no obligation to provide proof, or indeed evidence of any kind to support their banning decisions makes it even less likely that the right thing will be done in time. Without a visible, public outcry from those wrongly affected, the most likely scenario seems to me that the STF will never make substantive note of these complaints.

Personally I am not worried at all about Swine Flu, but I am more than a little worried about this. A very close friend of mine was just banned for no reason whatsoever. I know for an absolute fact that she does not and has not ever engaged in RMT of any form. More than a few players have flooded this and other forums with similar complaints. The only common thread the community has been able to make thusfar is that each of these players possessed multiple gardening mules for their own personal profits: a tactic that RMT organizations are known to have copied en masse for the purpose of selling the gil.

Particularly when you take into account the degree to which automated processes are apparently present in the STF filtering out the RMT from the legitimate players, the fact that some clearly legitimate players have been banned in this round makes it entirely plausible that anyone with multiple gardening mules is subject to the same treatment. That's not paranoia. It's simple common sense.

Quote:
I'm sure it sucks, but to be honest I am personally inclined to believe SE. They aren't going to ban people for doing nothing when that is their revenue stream. It's like McDonald's banning fat people from eating there because they want people to eat more healthy foods, it just doesn't happen.

False logic here. No doubt the STF is under a great deal of pressure to remove RMT from the game. Every player in the game receiving /tells from RMT mules look bad for a company that says they're doing everything they can to combat RMT. It makes them the subject of ridicule amongst their player base. It could very easily cause them to turn to the STF and say, "Look, people, it's your job to combat RMT: step your game up!"

Of course, the job of distinguishing RMT from legitimate players is by its nature an inexact science at best. The STF might reply, "we can be more aggressive, but that increases the chances that legitimate players will be hit in our sweeps," a concern that S/E may or may not treat as a priority.

Oh, I have no doubt that the STF *thinks* that they banned RMT, but that doesn't mean that they're correct. Mistakes happen.

The real issue here is the degree to which the secretive nature of the STF makes it easier to brush false positives under the rug.
#35 Jul 07 2009 at 7:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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The real lesson to be learned here is that if you want to make gil in this game you should stick with the officially sanctioned SE method: Bot HNMs and sell the drops.
#36 Jul 07 2009 at 8:03 AM Rating: Decent
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751 posts
Incoming gardening nerf!
#37 Jul 07 2009 at 8:11 AM Rating: Good
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Gardening nerf is fine with me, just give me my account back!
#38 Jul 07 2009 at 8:13 AM Rating: Excellent
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Why do RMT have to dirty up everything? Smiley: cry
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#39 Jul 07 2009 at 8:25 AM Rating: Good
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What is your status Pikko? Have you also been smacked around by the banstick because of your Pikko Pots?
#40 Jul 07 2009 at 8:49 AM Rating: Good
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Multidude wrote:
What has kept you safe is that you send all of the product to one character instead of having multiple characters cash in and send the gil to your main.


Definitely this.

Quote:
all he (GM) said was "I wouldn't garden for a while"


:O
#41 Jul 07 2009 at 8:57 AM Rating: Decent
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rikkuotaku wrote:
Multidude wrote:
What has kept you safe is that you send all of the product to one character instead of having multiple characters cash in and send the gil to your main.


Definitely this.


I disagree. One of the first to receive the ban did, in fact, send the items from mules to a main on a different account, and it was the main the cashed them in.

There is not enough consistancy in the reported bans to find global rules that all fell under.
#42 Jul 07 2009 at 9:36 AM Rating: Good
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Gardened with 1 main, 7 mules. NPC'd nothing, all bazaarable goods go to a mule in Bastok. Colored rocks to my main to synth (Goldsmithing 67 +1), crystals to the AH, single crystals to a central mule to consolidate and AH or store for further gardening cycles depending on crystal. Dropped all little worms (npcing for 1 gil apiece isn't worth it).

99% sure I'm closing down the operation until this blows over. I'm gonna be broke as hell though. But better than getting wrongfully banned.

This RMT witch hunt has gone the direction I feared it would. I just never thought gardening would be involved.

EDIT: Forgot to clarify that all my mules are level 10 or 11 with no exp buffer. (For Outpost Warps, the 11's just happened to be where the anniversery ring charges wore on a couple of them).

Edited, Jul 7th 2009 2:28pm by Vaius
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#43 Jul 07 2009 at 9:40 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Tzarcastic wrote:
I spoke with a GM about this just now.

At first he asked me where I heard of these bans for gardening and NPC the goods. I told him Allakhazam.com

He seemed shocked by this and commented that gardening was part of the game and what you do with your harvest and what you grow is up to you.

He then asked me to wait while he checked on this. When he returned all he said was
"I wouldn't garden for a while"


Anyway I have 7 gardening mules. All different cities and no common names.
All are on 1 account with my main.

1 mule is lvl 75 1 is 41 the rest are 20.

So far I haven't been banned.


I just wonder if the bans have to do with multiple accounts and sending the items/gil to another account. So far it doesn't seem to matter what the crop is from what I have read.
Screenshots = where?
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#44 Jul 07 2009 at 9:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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/sigh. What would be nice is more active PR from SE saying "we banned some people, this is why, we are getting numerous reports of innocent people getting banned and have set up an exclusive customer service flow to resolve the issue for these players."

I would think that a scripted system would catch some people it didn't mean to, so they should have prepared for the inevitible backwash of people who were wrongfully (or feel they were wrongfully) LM-17'd.

edit - because I am inexplicably bothered by misspelling "banned" as "baned".

Edited, Jul 7th 2009 1:43pm by kskerns
#45 Jul 07 2009 at 9:50 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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kskerns wrote:
/sigh. What would be nice is more active PR from SE saying "we banned some people, this is why, we are getting numerous reports of innocent people getting banned and have set up an exclusive customer service flow to resolve the issue for these players."

I would think that a scripted system would catch some people it didn't mean to, so they should have prepared for the inevitible backwash of people who were wrongfully (or feel they were wrongfully) LM-17'd.

edit - because I am inexplicably bothered by misspelling "banned" as "baned".

Edited, Jul 7th 2009 1:43pm by kskerns
The only huge drawback to the automated system is that it takes SE weeks/months to rollback a false positive. Most other companies that serve online gaming can revert something like this within a matter of hours of the incident occurring.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#46 Jul 07 2009 at 9:53 AM Rating: Decent
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6,580 posts
Number of Mules? 5
Level of Mules? One is 5 (Jeuno), other four are 1
Location? 2 Bastok (Taru) 1 Sandy (Galka) 1 Windy (Mithra) 1 Jeuno (Taru)
Character race/Model? Galka has a 'tash, mithra has blonde hair, jeuno taru M has blue hair, bastok tarus (1 M, 1 F) have blonde-red hair.
Harvest sent or self sold? Sold, sent gil.
Mule names? Yamase, Shikimori, Ruso (Tarus), Chasca (Mithra), Butterfree (Galka)
Banned? No, but I stopped gardening about a month ago, I just can't be bothered right now >.>
#47 Jul 07 2009 at 9:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Months? Please tell me you dont mean months till we can get our accounts back. I am old. I could be dead by then!!!
#48 Jul 07 2009 at 9:58 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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susaninthegarden wrote:
Months? Please tell me you dont mean months till we can get our accounts back. I am old. I could be dead by then!!!
Yes, SE is extremely slow with these matters.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#49 Jul 07 2009 at 10:03 AM Rating: Decent
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If I got a free account, do they still have these, for awhile would it be banned by ip number?
#50 Jul 07 2009 at 10:10 AM Rating: Decent
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Number of Mules? I have 15 mules on my account that my husband uses. He has 15 mules on his account and another 15 on a friend's account that we took over when our friend quit the game.

Level of Mules? Except for 1 that is level 18 (my son was playing around with her) all of the other mules were level 1.

Character race/Model? All varied races and models. Varied cities but mostly bastok because of the proximity of the mog house to the AH.

Harvest sent or self sold? Harvest was distributed as follows: Ice ore sent to a Jeuno mule on my husband's account, platinum leaves all send to my husband's main (he NPC'd the leaves) and all wind clusters were put on the AH by each individual mule.

Mule names? Ours are all unique except for the ones on our friend's account.

Banned? LM-17 on my account... so far my husband's account and our friend's account are ok.

Once again, the gardening was solely for the purpose of accumilating gil to fund my husband's gjallerhorn. We never RMT'd anything.
#51 Jul 07 2009 at 10:19 AM Rating: Good
Quote:
I expect a nerf of a few gardening recipes in the next update.


As others have said in a way I hope they do. If they want to be retards then by all means nerf gardening which will save a lot of the users quite a bit of money every month. I would save at least £30 a month, infact I hope they do. They are so stupid they need to be hit where it hurts, the wallet.

Instead of having some sense and fixing free trial accounts so they don't have so much free scope, they would destroy a rather low yet valid means of making gil which is making Square a nice chunk of change too. Good thinking.
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