Job Adjustments (12/03/2010)Follow

RDM can do Evisceration, has numerous Haste options, can make a decent WS set, doesn't have to worry about accuracy or attack much anymore, and oh, yeah, it can solo everything in the game. Quit being a whiny *****.

Why exactly aren't you on the front lines these day? Idk if you've noticed but SE has moved every job towards being front line capable with atmas and point them in that direction with their new JT and spells.

Don't believe me? Look at SCH. They get Occult Acumen and a regain spell as ways to help them gain tp besides just meleeing, and can now self SC. On top of this they also got new defensive spells to defend themselves on the front lines.

Newer events reward you more for doing multiple things. Mages are encouraged to be in the front lines in Abyssea, Bastion, Walk of Echoes, and before that, Campaign. I made a thread about this before, but it was overshadowed by my remarks to the unholy trinity of alla's whiniest little ********

The point is, you can be on the front lines as melee. You're encouraged to, and it's generally accepted now by the players. If you're not on the front lines, it's your choice now and it's because you're doing less than you could be.


tl;dr: You're not on the front lines because your dumb *** is too busy whining about not being on the front lines, instead of, you know, going out on the front lines.

WARNING NSFW

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Futanari


"Futa" is short for futanari.

Edited, Dec 4th 2010 12:03am by Lobivopis

Sorry, but atmas don't mean much to someone who isn't at abyssea levels yet. I'm 8 levels away from hitting the criteria for people shouting for abyssea groups (lv70). I actually finished off DNC the other day. It's just a matter of hitting 70+ on RDM without losing my sanity. We still don't have proper support from game mechanics for us to step to the front pre-abyssea levels. That's where most of my ire at the devs is coming from. As has been said before, we're used as healers and buffbots for most of the time spent leveling, which does nothing for our desire to frontline in a party. Might change the day people between 41 and 70 start being okay with inviting melee RDMs, but that is not the case at the moment.

Edit: And before you say it, no composure doesn't cut it when it comes to getting a spot in the front.

Edited, Dec 3rd 2010 11:18pm by Ruisu

You can melee any level as long as your group is good and you don't need to rest. Singing with your little sword/dagger doesn't really hurt your ability to cast refresh/haste, all it means is no 10%+ on cures.

Hell, you can use RDM/WAR to tank at really low levels without too much complaint, and can actually do it better than PLDs. Not much changes either aside from PLD getting better DD gear eventually.

You could just leech abyssea as a box ***** as well, or a cure *****.

Unfortunately, our best dagger is still Blau while other dagger jobs have upgraded 7D+, among other stats.



Also largely pre-76 gear, which isn't too generous with ACC or ATK while other physical jobs have largely gotten better.



Unfortunately, the good WS are sub-restricted, are putting you back on antiquated weapons, or require enduring the community cesspool of WoE. Nevermind how CDC isn't helping any pre-85 RDM.



Maybe not so much ACC if you're sporting RR and have the 2 Furtherance abyssites, but ATK is still an issue for a RDM and even T1 Enspells face modest resist issues despite a solid enhancing build. Unlike others, some of us are also worrying about life post-Abyssea where all this delicious atma crack candy disappears.



Not everyone solos. Not everyone agrees they should even be possible (Of which SE has taken measures in the past to curb). Punishing a job because a small group of people have done something with it doesn't exactly lead to meaningful job growth. Arguably, this is a sting SAMs (zomgoverpowered!), DRKs (SEBW zergs), and RDMs ("YOU CAN SOLO THE WORLD!") are all enduring. Doesn't matter if other DDs could compete, zergs could succeed without DRKs, or other healers managed just fine in RDM's "usual" role and things RDMs were soloing were being soloed by other jobs, too. Sometimes faster. It's just easier to believe what someone said on a forum than to put some thought into making alternatives work. So begins the bandwagon.


Overall, any sane RDM isn't asking to be the king of everything, let alone all at once. We'd just like to be able to do any aspect of that everything when we're properly geared (Which needs accessible upgrades) without being shackled to a specific subjob and in the mood without being told how we're doinitrong or others in the group start slacking or sabotage performance (suddenly more pulls, not putting up shadows, AFKing) to try and prove the RDM should be chilling in the back. Feel free to believe it doesn't happen, but nobody ever does a /sea all RDM and says, "Hey, can you sub <DD sub> and melee?" It's more like... "We couldn't find a WHM, so we're settling on you. But we won't tell you that so just be glad we're inviting you anyway. Oh, and hope you like hasting a full party and cross-alliance healing. Don't worry about debuffs or nukes, either."

As with what SE's doing with THF, they could force RDM melee viability if they chose to. While there are lots of little things that need to be touched on to cover the entirety of the issue, it can still be done without stealing anyone's thunder or breaking the job. Instead, they've been ******* around on their old promise and give us gems like Shield Mastery at a point where RDMs couldn't tank even if they wanted to.

Edited, Dec 4th 2010 4:14am by Seriha

Right, because TH is the only stat that matters in battle.

Until WotG the only point of melee was to tank, deal damage, and manage hate. Then they made DNC viable by making its healing require TP, despite the fact that it wasn't a top tier DD, tank, or hate manager. There's no technical reason they can't modify any other job to be frontline in the same way.

If Enspell II's had a small chance to inflict Break, Addle, Stun, Amnesia, etc. even against normally resistant NMs, it would be instantly worthwhile to bring RDMs up to the front line at any fight. You could even have multiple RDMs (up to one for each element) to maximize the effectiveness.

Edited, Dec 4th 2010 2:45am by OrofinOdin

I don't think you're new enough here to have missed various talks I've had on RDM in the past. Plus this isn't exactly the place to go into a giant wish list. Ultimately, I just want to put out there that some degree of QQ is justified (from whatever job, assuming reason in their gripe) while outright snubbing a job's growth due to past status isn't exactly productive for the game on the whole.

For now, I'd just be content with equipment that shows SE understands hybrids can't be rocking a billion different gear sets without the active inventory space to put them all to use. There's plenty of room to spin new ideas, but admittedly some of the past RDM wants have been doled out to other jobs (Diffusion/Accession, DNC's steps as enfeebles, and even SCH's pending skillchain nuke or buff extensions [without needing +2/specialized gear]). I can understand that RDM is some parts redundancy relative to other jobs, and I'm more than aware of the inadequacy of Cure IV on Abyssea NMs for example, but that doesn't mean some measure of diversity can't be had, either.

Really, it wouldn't be the end of the world to see an ATK or ACC trait. Maybe a spell that grants some degree of double attack to ourselves so we can look past Joyeuse to other higher damage weapon choices. Maybe even a trait that ignores a portion of enemy defense with another that inflicts random debuffs on crits based on your position against the mob. Imagination's the limit, really, and some of us just feel like SE hasn't even been trying. Babble about THF TP feed in this thread has reminded me it's always came up in the past when RDMs have brought up the desire to swing, too.

Sadly, I can agree that people will largely not care if whatever comes of it does not guarantee more loot or higher EXP in the shortest amount of time. The balancing act between fun and efficiency is another battle of its own. There's no shortage of "If you want to X, level Y." commentary out there. I have other jobs where I could DD, heal/support, or nuke better than RDM. Situations rarely shift so suddenly where not being on RDM was a detriment. And while I'll not say RDM is in lolstatus, it's harder to want to be on it when people are single-minded.

This game has turned into an entirely new game almost overnight with Abyssea. The idea of a large alliance of different, specialized jobs all working together for a common goal is all but dead. The game now focuses on smaller groups with each individual taking on multiple roles. While multitasking itself isn't new, the idea that all jobs should be multitasking is. Mages are Melee, Melee are Tanks, BLMs are Indestructable.

SE has successfully crippled the excessive Job Specialization and Min/Maxing that was slowly killing the game off. How? They made it unnecessary by making everyone a being from the planet Crypton. That extra 1 INT isn't as important when you're sitting pretty at 200+. That +5STR means literally nothing to your melee now that your fSTR/cRatio is capped and for Wss you're getting all of 10 extra damage to your 4,526 damage e-peen shot.

Large groups are shunned now because you don't need their help. Lets look into the very near future: That WHM/NIN doesn't really need that big strong WAR to get his AFs upgraded, he's planning on crushing that bunny's skull with his awesome new hammer he got from ToM. This is an example of what's to come. Are groups bad? No not at all, you probably got some friends you wouldn't mind hanging out with, or you might want that WAR to try and help proc a red !! for an atma. It's not really necessary though. All that's really necessary is a D+ in the area of How To Survive or at least How Not To Die. It's not bad, in exchange for this "dumbing down" as some may call it, you gain casual gaming/events. No long long lineups for Dynamis, no real strict cool downs, no camping for months to try and get claim against a group botting an HQ spawn, and nothing that takes 3 hours to do and you feel obligated to stay for. Everyone can get nice gear without having to sell your soul, your first born, and upload a bot to get into an ls to sit around with bunch of @#%^ing lowlifes you can't stand.

That's where we're heading.


Also, to Seriha you should look into a Khanda lol.

Also, is there anyone saying RDM has to stay in the back?

Edited, Dec 4th 2010 7:20am by Return1

And here I thought SE created Blue Mage because it was a traditional FF job that fanboys screamed about for years.

Return1,

If you're not meleeing, it's because you choose not to... I meleed practically my entire career back before ToAU...

You're waiting for SE to hand it to you on a silver platter. The tools are already there, you have to go out get it.

This is what I meant by loving the release of BLU and SCH. Not that RDM shouldn't melee, but for the ones who want it handed to them, should go to BLU. Leave RDM to the people who know how to do it right.

I have the 2-3x +1'd, a MACC sword that's more used for convert set now (if I bother to take it all with me into Abyssea), the earlier mentioned Joyeuse, and a sword sitting at the WoE/Almace branch. Depending on how the update unfolds, I'm not sure which I'll wind up going for, but even if Almace isn't the most difficult Empyrean to upgrade, I don't exactly have reliable help to work toward it.



Maybe it is old habits to a degree, but I just heard it for years anytime the subject came up, or the usual "level a real DD" tripe. My biggest problem now when I'm tasked to RDM with my LS is they usually wind up spreading me pretty thin, either having now WHMs around or I'm responsible for 2 parties. It's a bit maddening, and I know I've angered people trying to talk some sense into streamlining our events, but it's an awkward position where if I just tell them to **** off and disband/log out, I might not have a shell later with no guarantee another competent one is out there waiting and accepting. Granted, LS atmosphere changed some when I took a few months off for Aion, so a lot of the people I used to really click with aren't even playing anymore.