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[dev1009] New Trigger Conditions for Notorious MonstersFollow

#27 Apr 20 2011 at 6:04 AM Rating: Decent
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My only worry is what they lowered the drop rate to. This is SE we're talking about... so what sounds about right? 5% drop rate, or is that too high? :(


It's difficult to know anymore, "This is SE we're talking about.." was before Abyssea where they gave us everything as easy as possible.
#28 Apr 20 2011 at 6:04 AM Rating: Good
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Hmm, here's a thought... stop spamming Abyssea and go back to regular mobs for a bit... you'll get them.


Ok, so kings have moved from one sort of tediousness to another. Yaaaay?

Edited, Apr 20th 2011 8:05am by Fynlar
#29 Apr 20 2011 at 6:28 AM Rating: Good
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Ok, so kings have moved from one sort of tediousness to another. Yaaaay?


At least this method means if you put in the work you get to fight something.
#30 Apr 20 2011 at 6:58 AM Rating: Good
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It's difficult to know anymore, "This is SE we're talking about.." was before Abyssea where they gave us everything as easy as possible.


Very true. Although, if they were in their "easy as possible" mindset, surely they'd have just let the items be 100% drop. Still, not /shouting that the sky is falling yet... but I just imagine this is a Classic SE moment.
#31 Apr 20 2011 at 7:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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would be good if they let us exchange our seals for different ones in a descending order.

HKC > KC,KS,BS
KC > KS,BS
KS > BS
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#32 Apr 20 2011 at 7:10 AM Rating: Default
preludes wrote:
They stated BB will be obsolete in a few updates but yeah this is kinda o.O

Honestly though I wish they did something like this long ago when the gear they dropped was important enough to warrant such a system. Still would of been better than the botting system.


I was thinking that, bit late now but nice addition I think - about time the HNM LS's no longer dominated these... oh wait no one cares about them anyway... :(

I actually have like 500 KS's and almost 1k BS's still, have not done a major burn for about 3 years and only minor runs since then.
#33 Apr 20 2011 at 7:31 AM Rating: Decent
Hey, let's make Black Belt only obtainable by using 99 seals that no one has anymore, since no one kills anything outside of abyssea for XP from level 40+ anymore. Couldn't POSSIBLY be ANYTHING wrong with that.

Even when they have a great idea (making land kings poppable), they go and ruin it with some stupid restriction (putting the pop items in KS99)

The least they could ******* do is make KS99 a KS30 instead, or allow BS to be exchanged for KS.
#34 Apr 20 2011 at 7:33 AM Rating: Default
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Xilk wrote:
they gave players what they've been screaming for. the timed spawn for them has been removed. There is now a clear path for obtaining black belt that does not have the time dependency. This is pretty clever imo.


You will always have a way to trigger Fafnir, behemoth, adamantoise. You will ALWAYS get at least 1x trigger for the HQ version after defeating the NQ version.

The drop rate for black belt items ONLY comes from the HQ versions, but they are MUCH more available... and decreasing it from 100% is not that bad when you can fight it several times in a row, or you have a clear path for farming another trigger set.

This is a great response w/out completely castrating the NM's and making it more of a McBlackbelt.

Whiners get no sympathy on this one.


^^ This *2 ^^

I think it was silly for people to assume they were going to make BB items super easy.
I'm still a brown belt monk and this makes me happy
#35 Apr 20 2011 at 7:36 AM Rating: Good
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Seedling wrote:
Interesting... I think this will actually help MNKs get the BB items, since the KSNM battles will still drop them and will be done much more often to get NQ HNM pops. No more 24h camps against botting linkshells, and being forced to pay millions for a drop. Who knows.. maybe they will now pay YOU for the pop. :D

I also suspect this will involve the new KCNM and HKCNM battles. Either you can buy KS orbs with KC/HKC, or new battles are added that pit you against a 90/99 cap version of the 75 cap battles for a chance at HQ HNM pops.

Abyssea doesn't drop that many Kindred Seals, but I reckon colibri camps are going to be very popular again for the highspeed killing and KS drops.


Out of the entire topic so far this is the closest post I can agree with.

Yeah I was like "WTF" at first but then I stopped to think. This is great overall. The most important thing here is that the kings are no longer timed spawn. A lot of years too late, but better late than never.

So you do a KS99, kill the mob (should be almost cake at 90), get the pop item for the corresponding NQ king (or if you're really lucky, you'll get your BB item from the battlefield and bypass the pop system altogether), pop and kill NQ king, grab the pop item for the HQ king (at least 1 of these pops will drop 100% from the NQ king, right?), then kill the HQ king, and hope you luck out on your BB item. This keeps BB from being super easy to get, but still goes a long way to at least giving you a fair chance at obtaining it.

Sounds better than what we have right now, at least to me. Also, this might help put other items into circulation. Ridills and Defending Rings for all, perhaps? >_>
#36 Apr 20 2011 at 7:51 AM Rating: Excellent
Mikhalia the Picky wrote:
using 99 seals that no one has anymore


Not so, I have like 4 stacks in storage Smiley: grin We can use them to get your black belt if you want, I can't imagine I would use them for anything Smiley: nod
#37 Apr 20 2011 at 7:52 AM Rating: Default
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I guess most anything is better than the timed spawn, 3 hour bot fests we had before, but as in ye olde days of FFXI they've added one step too many to the process. It'll be just enough of a hassle to take it from reasonable challenge to pain in the ***.

And, of course, now instead of bot claim wars we'll have trade macro wars. Well, hopefully people will band together and do YPYD, but I wouldn't count on it too much.

Oh well, it's an "improvement" but like a lot of what SE has done over the years it comes off as just another kluge.
#38 Apr 20 2011 at 7:53 AM Rating: Excellent
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I know people are saying this is just turning one form of tediousness to another, but isn't it always better to be fighting something than standing around?

I can't stand timed spawn NM's. My work schedule doesn't allow me to sit around waiting on spawn windows to open. At least this way fights could be scheduled with others so as to fit into peoples real lives.

And at least you are always battling something which is far more interesting. And if any MNK's want to but some KS99 orbs off me, I've got 100's of seals sitting around doing nothing.

#39 Apr 20 2011 at 7:55 AM Rating: Good
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As a good thing, you can fight Nidhogg immediately after Fafnir now.
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#40 Apr 20 2011 at 8:00 AM Rating: Default
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At least this method means if you put in the work you get to fight something.


How does that make things different from how they were before?
#41 Apr 20 2011 at 8:02 AM Rating: Excellent
I love how many have declared this a failure before even trying it. The pessimism on this board is palpable, even though their recent changes to other things have been almost nothing but positive. This is why I'm waiting to reserve judgement on this change as well as the fishing system among other changes coming in May. I sometimes wonder, as I did when I was frequenting the XIV boards, if SE can do *anything* right in the eyes of the fan base.
#42 Apr 20 2011 at 8:03 AM Rating: Excellent
Fynlar wrote:
Quote:
At least this method means if you put in the work you get to fight something.


How does that make things different from how they were before?


Pretty sure he's saying that before you could stand around for hours and still walk away with nothing if you are out-claimed, which I'm pretty sure you knew Smiley: dubious
#43 Apr 20 2011 at 8:04 AM Rating: Default
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Update:

Quote:
How to obtain the trigger items:

Fafnir: Treasure from “Early Bird Catches the Wyrm”
Behemoth: Treasure from “Horns of War”
Adamantoise: Treasure from “The Hills are Alive”
* At least one of these items will be dropped in every battle.

Nidhogg: Treasure dropped by Fafnir
King Behemoth: Treasure dropped by Behemoth
Aspidochelone: Treasure dropped by Adamantoise


In other words, looks like the NQ king -> HQ king pop isn't going to be 100%, either.

I think I'll be making a push to finish my BB before the patch so I don't have to deal with this crap.

Quote:
Pretty sure he's saying that before you could stand around for hours and still walk away with nothing if you are out-claimed, which I'm pretty sure you knew


Well yeah. Now you can **** around and accumulate 99 seals, only to get burned on the NQ->HQ pop and end up with zero chance of getting your BB on that run since apparently they'll only drop from KB/Nid/Aspid now.

So again, how have things changed? It's looking to be the same sort of tedium, just in a different form. Even in the past, if you "put the work in" (in other words, kept showing up to every king camp) you would EVENTUALLY get to fight the NQ, most likely on the days when the HQ can't pop.

Edited, Apr 20th 2011 10:08am by Fynlar
#44 Apr 20 2011 at 8:06 AM Rating: Good
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... Fynlar, who the **** taught you how to read?
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#45 Apr 20 2011 at 8:13 AM Rating: Default
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... Fynlar, who the @#%^ taught you how to read?


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#46 Apr 20 2011 at 8:17 AM Rating: Decent
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Fynlar wrote:
Update:

Quote:
How to obtain the trigger items:

Fafnir: Treasure from “Early Bird Catches the Wyrm”
Behemoth: Treasure from “Horns of War”
Adamantoise: Treasure from “The Hills are Alive”
* At least one of these items will be dropped in every battle.

Nidhogg: Treasure dropped by Fafnir
King Behemoth: Treasure dropped by Behemoth
Aspidochelone: Treasure dropped by Adamantoise


In other words, looks like the NQ king -> HQ king pop isn't going to be 100%, either.


... why?! Even if it's a 50% drop rate on the HQ trigger... and a 50% drop rate on the item... that's only a 25% chance that your original kill was even worthwhile. So, unless it's a higher rate than that, we're looking at this being all about luck. Sure, JoeBlackMage is going to get it on this first try. YOU, and you know who you are, won't be so lucky... and it will take you 10 kills or so for that 25% outcome to kick in.

UGH.
#47 Apr 20 2011 at 8:19 AM Rating: Good
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Yeah, let me break it down for you.

"At least one of these items will be dropped in every battle" means one or more trigger items will drop per NQ fight.
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#48 Apr 20 2011 at 8:19 AM Rating: Decent
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So again, how have things changed? It's looking to be the same sort of tedium, just in a different form. Even in the past, if you "put the work in" (in other words, kept showing up to every king camp) you would EVENTUALLY get to fight the NQ, most likely on the days when the HQ can't pop.


One of the worst parts of HNM was camping every day and continually watching others fight the NM, even fighting was fun...even if you didn't get the drops you wanted.

I wonder if they will remain active if people wipe lol If so there will be quite a few free Nidhogs from people overestimating themselves cause of Abyssea.
#49 Apr 20 2011 at 8:24 AM Rating: Excellent
shanecf wrote:
Fynlar wrote:
Update:

Quote:
How to obtain the trigger items:

Fafnir: Treasure from “Early Bird Catches the Wyrm”
Behemoth: Treasure from “Horns of War”
Adamantoise: Treasure from “The Hills are Alive”
* At least one of these items will be dropped in every battle.

Nidhogg: Treasure dropped by Fafnir
King Behemoth: Treasure dropped by Behemoth
Aspidochelone: Treasure dropped by Adamantoise


In other words, looks like the NQ king -> HQ king pop isn't going to be 100%, either.


... why?! Even if it's a 50% drop rate on the HQ trigger... and a 50% drop rate on the item... that's only a 25% chance that your original kill was even worthwhile. So, unless it's a higher rate than that, we're looking at this being all about luck. Sure, JoeBlackMage is going to get it on this first try. YOU, and you know who you are, won't be so lucky... and it will take you 10 kills or so for that 25% outcome to kick in.

UGH.


Am I the only one reading this as you are guaranteed a NQ pop item from the corresponding KSNMs, and then a chance at getting a pop item from that fight for the HQ?

Edited, Apr 20th 2011 9:25am by Wint
#50 Apr 20 2011 at 8:25 AM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, let me break it down for you.

"At least one of these items will be dropped in every battle" means one or more trigger items will drop per NQ fight.


Did you conveniently ignore where exactly that snippet was placed? Don't you think that if it were meant to apply to both sets of items, it would have been placed above or below both of the sets, and that the two sets of items wouldn't have been separated after the edit (compare it to the original version quoted in the OP)?

Given that the snippet is attached to the first set (the KS99 -> NQ pops), I would think that the "always at least one drop" only applies to those items. And therefore, the mere fact that they saw fit to point that out at all is a heavy implication that the Niddy pop won't be 100% off Faffy.


Quote:
Am I the only one reading this as you are guaranteed a NQ pop item from the corresponding KSNMs, and then a chance at getting a pop item from that fight for the HQ?


No, because that's exactly how they wrote it (following the edit). And that's what's being complained about.


Quote:
One of the worst parts of HNM was camping every day and continually watching others fight the NM, even fighting was fun...even if you didn't get the drops you wanted.


Ground kings were a frickin joke at 75, they're obviously even more so now. Nobody is going to go after these guys because they're challenging or fun or whatever, and I imagine very few people ever did in the first place. They're going to do it because the botters will finally be out of the picture.

Course, with all the drop rate ******* they're pulling, it's still questionable to me whether or not the BB is going to be easier or harder to acquire than before. I imagine this change might be universally good for people who want items like Defending Ring, I'll admit that, but even then I'm not holding my breath at a chance to get one.

Edited, Apr 20th 2011 10:32am by Fynlar
#51 Apr 20 2011 at 8:36 AM Rating: Decent
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They say "at least one" which means more are possible it sounds like.

I am OK with this patch. It is still a little disappointing. Overall it still means I have a clear path to my BB and won't have to pay gil or camp kings for it. I have been holding about 1100 KS for the purpose of getting my BB. My question is will the BB items still come from the KSNM? And what the heck will they do about the pathetic KS drop rate?
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