[dev1009] New Trigger Conditions for Notorious MonstersFollow

It would seem more logical to make it like an ENM. Maybe once per conquest tally. That'd be what drops your NQ pops.

As it stands, you need at LEAST 300 Kindred Seal's. Most likely, you need at least 2~ sets per king, pushing the number to 600, and that's barring terrible luck.

So, to all the extremely happy "Well, now I can fit this into my busy life!" people...

Do you realize how long it's going to take you to farm the (likely) 1000 kindred seals it's gonna take to get your black belt? This is good for people who have a huge kindred seal stockpile they never used and literally no one else.

I'd rather camp an NM than have yet ANOTHER part of the game where you get fancy loot for your ability to kill thousands upon thousands of easy prey enemies. (To farm KS, to complete magian kills, etc. etc. etc.)

This is not because I don't want people to have loot, but because my god, killing easy prey enemies en masse for hours is literally the least entertaining thing you could do.

Edited, Apr 20th 2011 6:22pm by ItsAMyri

Should the BB items be removed from the KS99, effort required changes to this (assuming same numbers as before):


50% drop rate on HQs:
1.5*k*20%*50% = 1
k * (1.5*20%*50%) = 1
k = 1 / (0.15) = 6.67

75% drop rate on HQs:
k = 1 / (0.225) = 4.44

Total number of KS99 runs required to get all 3 BB items (on average) would then be between 13.5 and 20 (for 75% and 50% drop rate from the HQ, respectively), and 20-30 NQ kills to get the pop items for the HQs.

Total time investment for the seals would be 110 to 165 hours (or 165 to 250 hours if factoring in mixed BS and KS drops), up to 3.5 times worse than present best-case with camping NQs. It would be roughly the equivalent of a person camping NQs for a month straight (and getting all claims) for each individual piece, and 3 months of continuous effort to complete the belt.

Another comparison would be treating time as the equivalent in money, at say 100k/hr. That puts the invested time's cost if keeping the KS99 drops at 6 to 7 mil (or up to 10 mil), and the time's cost if removing the KS99 drops at 11 to 16 mil (or 16 to 25 mil).

Essentially, removing the items from the KS99s would be a significant worsening relative to the current situation. Given the wording of the announcement, I consider it unlikely to be the case.


Edited, Apr 20th 2011 5:32pm by Kinematics

The problem is that there is no real way to obtain seals. There are no mobs that drop them more often. I don't think treasure hunter applies.

You can't fight a tough NM and get clumps of seals to drop.

All you can do is let them slowly pile up over time, or go insane murdering easy trash mobs.

Is that really how you people want to see a 'hard earned' item? Should Empyrean weapons just be "kill 100,000 easy prey crabs" to complete?

The problem with this system is simple. Sure, it gives everyone a chance to fight kings, but not enough of a chance to actually obtain their black belt without spending someone elses seals. And why is someone else just going to give you their seals?

I'm not gonna QQ if the HQ pop isn't 100%. That's perfectly logical. There can be misteps along the way. It's just that the pop item to start the chain (in this case, a KS99 orb) should be something you can work towards..

And you just can't work for a KS99 orb. You either have seals stocked or you don't. People who were too lazy to KSNM for years get a free ride, everyone else gets the boot.

There are literally no other items in the game IMPOSSIBLE to obtain without farming seals. Things like :ni scrolls and such are at least sellable on the AH..

Edit:



That'd be kinda like making a quest chain, where at the very end, you have a chance of getting the item as a reward. Except sometimes, it also drops from the first quest.

It makes no sense to progress from >Mob that drops the item, to, >Mob that CANT drop the item, to >Mob that drops the item, again.

Edited, Apr 20th 2011 6:39pm by ItsAMyri

SE hasnt given all the details but you think maybe the trigger system will be used for these HQ-pop but either way i think its a good idea. and from the looks of what is said here the BBitems will still drop from KSNM fights.so now for LS's looks like 1KSNM has a chance to let 2 BB items drop to the group. This could end up being better lets wait and see.

I can't speak for the 85 and 90 trials, but for everything up to, and including, the 80 trial for Empyrean Weapons, it is basically exactly that: kill a bunch of weak NMs to farm whatever pop for another pretty weak NM and hope you get a double drop. Rinse and repeat 24-49 times, depending on luck.

Well, random loot rewards can be fun. Sometimes you get screwed. Oh well.

Personally, I find a system that is random with reasonable (Read: Not 1%) chance of paying out to be more satisfactory than a guaranteed reward for killing 10,000 enemies or something.

So long as the task is fun, why cry about having to do it over? Maybe it takes ten kills, maybe twenty, but if you're having fun then who cares?

If you're NOT having fun, you should ask yourself how much 'fun' this particular item will bring you. Obviously, if you're gimp, you're not gonna have a lot of fun. If you're a ninja without utsusemi: ni, you're not gonna have a lot of fun.

As a monk, what doors will a black belt open for you, and how will it change your playstyle? The answer: "Not at all.". Maybe you can drop some haste pieces and wear kick attack shoes without losing haste or something; the subtle blow and -pdt are nice enough, but...

..At the end of the day, a black belt is just a "Man, look how hardcore I am" item. Ask yourself if the mild satisfaction of gloating every time someone /checks you is worth the hours put in.

The answer is probably no. So.

If you're having fun, why complain? If you're not having fun, why bother? I'd rather something be fun to do rather than offer faux-rewards..

I mean, with the current gear available, a monk can hit the haste cap without a black belt. The bonus these days is incredibly marginal, and mostly centered around completion/epeen. Is that all people play for anymore? It seems to be what SE caters to.. long, tedious, 'easy' tests.

Back in the day, there were things you'd simply say 'meh, too hard' and quit on. I'm not saying this is good design. I'm just saying, the current design is basically so easy that you can't say no without feeling gimp.. but so tedious you'll wish you could.

Edited, Apr 20th 2011 7:09pm by ItsAMyri

A few more points to make.

#1 SE said nothing at all about removing BB items from the BCNM themselves. I suspect the price of the speed belt will drop quite a bit though.

#2 Not everyone either has A) friends or B) capable of doing these BCNM's even at lv90+. This means you can offer a service to do the BCNM for an orb holder just like the old days with blm's manaburning ks30.

#3 Make friends with some old school BST's. I have personally have 3k Kindred seals if anyone wants to spam this.


This change will benefit almost everyone. Your average player wasn't claiming pops anyway. Your average player was purchasing these drops from another LS who was selling the drops anyway. An ENM system is NOT needed. We will have plenty of seals in circulation because of all these people who haven't consumed their own seals. I'm certain SE is aware of how many kindreds are in limbo right now doing nothing.

Only for the first few weeks until everyone burns up all their KS.

Koj, the ??? will respawn 1 minute after death. Meanwhile, people will be split amongst the 3 BC zones even when the possible "rush" begins, and from there the 3 respective zones. I could see fights taking 10-15m for the modestly prepared group, but I'm sure some lulz will be had as some scrubs think they could duo in any reasonable amount of time only to die and give someone a freebie (if there are even others around).

Don't really think it'll be as bad as NPCs were or other such things that horned in one specific spot/NPC.

Ok this bugged me enough I had to post. People more so ******* not speculated that RDM and WHM both got updates, and BLM did not. It was more expectation then speculation, because at the time BLM as in a very ****** place. It was pretty much unwanted, and useless outside of endgame related material. It wasn't used in Nyzul either to boot.

RDM and WHM were both sought after (especially post SCH for WHM) for every event from exp grind all the way up to the cream of the crop endgame stuff.

That is it for minor rant.

Also SE is stupid for changing this based on a belt that is nearly useless right now.

This makes me feel like I can be a special HNMLS member, selling KS99 orbs for a high price to people who want it, since I have around 600 kindred seals. But seriously, for casual players, this can be a good thing. How many times have you heard people mention they claim kings even though they don't need anything out of it, just in the hope of selling BB drops.

I think I might also zone into these areas after the update, just to watch what happens when a mnk + whm duo try to kill them. Counterstance, curebomb cure5, oh crap out of mp.

Edited, Apr 21st 2011 2:50am by xantav

So people really preferred it when your chance of an item drop was determined by your net latency and if your bot was better than the other guys bot.

You just can't please anyone nowadays.