Active Ability details for Sneak Attack  

I'm not expecting this to be answered amytime soon, given the last post was a year ago.. but, is it possible to equip Dex gear, use SA, and have the bonus remain exactly the same, allowing for acc, attack, etc? Or is it reduced if the Dex+ is removed? I'd assume the answer is right in front of my nose, but I can't seem to see it <_<; apologies, /em beats the dead horse.

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yes i agree that at low lvls thf SATA has good dmg and may be gimped when you sub thf at those lvls, but when drk gets to lvl66 thf becomes a nice subjob for drk doing anywere from 1k somtime 2k while ending or starting light skillchains.

Ok well im a 38 thf/mnk and I see alot of posts from lower level ths's or people with thf sub and I thought, as a profesional thf I should say somthing.. lol

I'm doning SATA and SATAWS in the garl..citadel (sp) on siege bats. I think there IT or T (we were going fast for chains) my STAT was doing 250+ and my SATAws (viperbite) was doing close to 375+

and i would just like to say, if you think your thf is getting ****** by trying to set up a certain formation to do there SATA. Dont there just trying to do the most damage they can and by the low 30's any tank should understant the formation. I cannot tell you how frustrating it is that at lv.36 you have to explain how to set up for SATA!!

umm im dont ranting now. That is all good day.

First off, Iceflint, Dex affects Sneak Attack while Agl affects Trick Attack.

Secondly, SA does get gimped when subbed. I know this because in a PT in Gustav Mines there was a Drk with Thf Subbed. They had quite a bit of + Dex items on and hit pretty hard normally on the gobs.
We were both of equal lvl. Now, I was doing about 150 to a Gob with SA by itself. The Drk was doing about the same with SA + Slice. I add in Viper Bite and my 150 goes up to 250, throw in TA and I'm doing about 400+.
So yeah, Sneak Attack's effectiveness drops to that of a critical hit when thf is subbed. Not saying it's not good, but it doesn't beat a real Thf.

Sorry about that post, haha but i was wondering How much dmg trick attack + Sneak attack does at lvl 30 with 30 thf/nin adverage dmg on a mob in the jungle,

After the May-June 2004 update, Sneak Attack has been improved.

When used in conjuction with the level 45 ability "Hide", Sneak Attack deals critical damage to the enemy no matter where you are facing.

i'm a level 44drk/22thf and sneak does work with slice, but the damage it does isn't anything like a sneak attack + dagger weapon skill. the most i ever did to an IT was a little over 200, and that was with last resort and souleater active. a sneak regular attack is a little bit less than a normal critical, but it's still 50-60 points more. im anxious to get to 60 so i can do a sneak + trick guillotine.

Edited, Tue Mar 23 22:39:48 2004

As far as I know, this ability can be done with any melee weapon. Dagger and sword I am certain of.

I think I'll post to try and debunk the "nerfed when sub" myth and just try to explain how the damage is calculated.

Usually, the damage inflicted on an enemy is dependant on strength, base damage and enemy vitality, plus a random roll factor. So someone with 30 strength, a 20 DMG weapon against a 30 vitality enemy with defense equal to attacker's offense would do around 20 dmg.

What sneak does is two things :
1- Add your dexterity to the base damage.
2- Give you a 100% chance critical hit, ~2X damage.

Let's take a lvl 30 thief (me), in a group fight against a lvl 35 Yoahtor mandragora, who has a monk job.

My stats : 39 STR, 42 DEX, 145 ATK (on mithkabobs)
Opponent stats : roughly 36 VIT, 120 Def (guestimates based on lvl 36 MNK/hume VIT)
Using my old windurstian dagger, dmg 12

Damage calculation is (12 + 39 + 42 - 36) * 145/120 * 2 = 137 DMG which would be in the ballpark of what I was doing.

The way I see the program work, is that there's a formula applied to damage variation, and a another formula applied for to-hit, and if the to-hit is above a certain number you get your critical hit and the 2X modifier. That is why your critical hits vary in damage even on the same monster.

Ok now, why people using a thief sub say it's just a critical hit.

Take a hume WAR30/THF15, assuming he's not boosting his dex, and boosts his STR by 6. His STR is 41 after mods, and his dex is 34. He's using his brand new 38 DMG great axe.

A normal critical hit agains an even with 35 VIT and equal def to his atk would be around (41 + 38 - 35)*2 = 88 damage. Our thief's normal critical with a 12 dmg dagger and the same stipulations would be around 32 damage, which seems about right from what I see on-screen.

Now say that same warrior uses his sneak attack against that opponent. He'd get (41 + 34 + 38 - 35) * 2 = 156 damage, so less than twice a regular critical and 4X a normal hit. Our thief (me) on the other hand would get (12 + 39 + 42 - 35) * 2 = 116 damage, 3.6 times a normal critical, and 7.25 times a normal hit.

So then the player assumes that sneak is nerfed because it's a sub, but the same exact formula was used, just that the weight of the variables change.

Now I know that these are just ballpark estimates, so don't come out and say "I have same exact stats and I did 161" or so, because I haven't had the time or the will to try and reverse engineer the formulas. I might do it once pvp is in, because I will be able to go with a friend and make all of the variables vary greatly and see the difference it does in damage.

P.S: Weaponskill is not factored in the equations, and that will be one of the hardest variable to figure the effects of.

Edited, Wed Feb 18 13:52:27 2004

Does Sneak attack work with Dragoon skills? such as jump?

Reason i came here and what i couldnt find is how to do macro, took me awhile but its

/ja "Sneak Attack" <me>

Must be capital on both Sneak and Attack. And like post below remember it's a buff, use it before pull, and you can use it again sortly after. I'd say it lasts 30 seconds, and recast is 60 seconds.

First off, Sneak Attack acts as a buff wears off either when you swing next, or one minute later. IF you happen to be directly behind a creature, and not moving, when you swing next you will score a critical hit(with no chance of missing) for obscene amounts of damage. This means you can use it while someone is comming with a mob, move behind it, start attacking and hit with sneak attack. That way, the recast time is partially used up, allowing you to get another sneak attack in sooner.

Next, the damage for sneak attack is based off of your dex AND your atk if you're a thief(If you are not a thief it's a glorified critical hit). This means, generally, that a large bonus to attack(Say +10 or so) is worth it more damage than a small bonus to Dex(Say +2 or 3). It also means that daggers in a thief's hands will usually hit for a bit more since a thf is A ranked with a dagger and D ranked with a sword(and E ranked with hand to hand). Do note, however, that boost adds large sums to your atk, making sneak attack do signifigantly larger damage.

And finally, Sneak Attack will stack with Trick Attack and all ws that "hit" an enemy(ie no elemental ones as has been stated before. If you're unsure just note next time whether or not it gave back TP when you hit with it. If it did then it stacks). HOWEVER, by stack i mean it will do the damage of sneak attack + (whatever) and NOT sneak attack X number of hits in skill. This is why pre level 30 stacking is for the most part POINTLESS since all you have acomplished is adding more hate that you dont need to yourself. The only actual use is in skill chains where the damage done by the after effect is based on the damage you did, HOWEVER, not all partys pre 30 will use skillchains and the setup might cost more damage from unused sneak attacks than it's worth. Note however, that post 30 stacking is important ONLY when Trick Attack is involved since any damage done is placed on your trick attack assistant, thus helping glue creatures to your tank.

And finally finally, after you get sneak attack start learning the handy phrases,"Please Stop Moving!" and "Everyone to one side Please. Im missing sneak attacks!". As a matter of fact, you might want to macro them.(I wish I was kidding....)

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Visit GameFAQ for a good Thief FAQ. I also know that there are people who are trying to put out a better FAQ, but the one in GameFAQ is already pretty well-done.

Weapon of choice for a thief pre-level 33 is really just about anything. I never picked up Monk as a subjob, so I can't comment on hand-2-hand, but sword generally produces a lot more damage than daggers, and fast blade is a good weapon skill to use. After level 33 (when you get Viper Bite for your dagger skill), "dagger is the way to go". Viper Bite can be used in many skill chains, stacks with Sneak/Trick, and the dagger is just much faster than swords. Also take in the consideration that with the lower skill cap on swords, you'll be more likely to miss using a sword. H2H Combo makes decent amount of damage, but as a thief I'd much rather have a dagger/shield that adds more stats to myself. Currently trying to do the Ninja subjob so I can use daggers/Katanas... I think that'll be a nice way to do it (and have been told that it's good).

For reference purposes, I generally deal 300+ damage on Incredibly Tough monsters with a dmg 12 dagger using Sneak + Trick + Viper Bite. If using that to end a skill chain, it adds about 100 more damage and possibly more depending on the chain and the monster type.

Sneak/Trick stacks with all weapon types (as long as you can use it), but it does not stack with all weapon skills. The ones I know that stacks with sneak/trick: Combo, Fast Blade, Double Thrust, Viper Bite, Dancing Blade. I've heard that all basic slash/hit/bonk weapon skills stacks with sneak/trick, but can't prove that yet... Hopefully someone who's got the time to investigate will tell us soon!

The above is just my opinion based on experience, I do not intend to suggest any "correct" way to do anything. Just try things out proves to be much more fun than trying to follow someone's footsteps :)

37 THF / 18 RDM
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