will provoke hate diminish over time? like say your looking at a graph...
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h | O <-- provoke hate is here
a |
t |
e |
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|___________________
time
will it gradually go down, like this? after abot 10 seconds say
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h |
a |
t |......... O <--- provoke hate is now here
e |
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Time
just wondering cuz i've been told and it seems like thats the way it works having lvl'd WAR to 30, then to 20, NIN to 37, and PLD to 20 and watching a PLD go from 1-37 war and then 1-75 PLD...so, if anyone can confirm this please let me know
Edited, Jul 25th 2006 at 3:57am EDT by TheChedster had to fix the graph it was kinda sloppy
Edited, Jul 25th 2006 at 3:57am EDT by TheChedster
Active Ability details for Provoke
| Jobs/Level: | Warrior, lvl 5 |
|---|---|
| MP cost: | 0 |
| Element: | None |
| Duration: | N/A |
| Reuse: | 30 Seconds |
| Cast time: | Instant |
| Target Type: | Single |
| Description: | Boosts the enmity towards a target. |
I can never forget this damn macro a player used.
/p You spank it I'll tank it.
/ja "Provoke" <t>
/p You spank it I'll tank it.
/ja "Provoke" <t>
17 posts
All that I can say about PLD and flash/heals for hate is that if they aren't doing so then you really should simply boot them from your PT passed, say, level 15+. It's such an intrinsic function of the class that if they havn't figured out by then then they need to be informed of their mistake by violent projection from all PTs with a hearty, "And flippin' heal yourself, you idiot!" It's not rocket science here and they've certainly played to level 30 for the quest so they should have some clue on how it works by then.
It's hard enough for us to get PTs with everyone thinking that WAR/NIN and NIN/WARs are the BESTEST TANKS EVAR! without someone who has no clue about what they're doing ruining our reputations. For some reason people will forgive a bad <NIN involved in the character> but a bad PLD experience stays with people for a long, LONG time...
Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )
It's hard enough for us to get PTs with everyone thinking that WAR/NIN and NIN/WARs are the BESTEST TANKS EVAR! without someone who has no clue about what they're doing ruining our reputations. For some reason people will forgive a bad <NIN involved in the character> but a bad PLD experience stays with people for a long, LONG time...
Mark(psycho)Phipps( HAHAHA! )
4 posts
Ok i've read the posts and some think provoke should be used as often as possible, some only in emergency situations. The job of the main tank is to get hate and keep the hate. Thats why Pld's use provoke, flash, sentinel, and other job abilties at the start of the fight, I also throw in a cure before my second voke. The reason for this is to make sure tank doesn't lose the hate at any point in the fight. That way if the mages have to throw out big cures or blm uses ancient magic or -aga spells to MB then it is easy to get the hate back if tank does lose it. It is the mages job to keep you alive so get as much hate as possible and PLEASE Pld's cure youselves to get more hate, if you don't need a cure throw it on pt member that does, the more hp the cure heals for the more hate you get. Pld wants to provoke and flash (after you learn the spell) as much as possible to keep the hate, along with throwing cures between provokes. Sorry for long post hope this helps the new tanks out there.
Edited, Jul 20th 2006 at 3:01pm EDT by Argard
Edited, Jul 20th 2006 at 3:01pm EDT by Argard
While its true Provoke is one of Paladin's best tools, a Paladin does not always need to have hate so secure on him/her that it cannot be ripped off. We are Hate Managers....Managing being the key to any successful Paladin. In most parties past 68, you will have a Thief or Thf Sub in your party that will want to use SATA (Sneak Attack / Trick Attack) as part of a Skill Chain. In this instance, a secondary voker (A Damage Dealer with War Sub...or a Warrior DD) will need to temporarily take hate off the Paladin so the Thief can SATA behind him/her...thereby locking hate back onto the {meat}{shield} ---- er, Paladin.
You of course want to always know what the cooldown timer is on your Provoke ability, but you dont always want to engage it every 30 seconds. If the DD's are close to a skillchain, use a spike-hate tool (Sentinel, Shield Bash) that is a short burst of hate to keep the mob on you until the DD's are ready, then Provoke after SATA to further the lockdown of hate.
Personally, in addition to this strategy, I have always kept either Warcry ... or more times than not, Rampart as a backup. Just in case the mob turns to look at the over eager Black Mage, I can Rampart to bring his attention back to me if Provoke/Flash/Sentinel/Shield Bash are not available yet before two steps are taken.
You of course want to always know what the cooldown timer is on your Provoke ability, but you dont always want to engage it every 30 seconds. If the DD's are close to a skillchain, use a spike-hate tool (Sentinel, Shield Bash) that is a short burst of hate to keep the mob on you until the DD's are ready, then Provoke after SATA to further the lockdown of hate.
Personally, in addition to this strategy, I have always kept either Warcry ... or more times than not, Rampart as a backup. Just in case the mob turns to look at the over eager Black Mage, I can Rampart to bring his attention back to me if Provoke/Flash/Sentinel/Shield Bash are not available yet before two steps are taken.
5 posts
Can anyone confirm if CHR affects provoke?
I remember in the dunes lvling dragoon, i ate jack-o'-lanterns, which give -10 CHR, or something like that, and when i would voke, the mob would turn to me for maybe one fourth of a second. I don't know much, i'm a lv75rdm, most melee in pt i've ever done was take drk to lv37, and that was some time ago.
I remember in the dunes lvling dragoon, i ate jack-o'-lanterns, which give -10 CHR, or something like that, and when i would voke, the mob would turn to me for maybe one fourth of a second. I don't know much, i'm a lv75rdm, most melee in pt i've ever done was take drk to lv37, and that was some time ago.
7 posts
no SE stated that CHR has nothing to do with Enmity...
however.. since spells are related to elements and and base stats are related to base stats by color code,
ie: berserk(which is red icon) is bases off of STR(also red colored in gear and items)
this theory woul lead me to believe that it is more probable for Provoke to be based off of INT if anything at all since it has a light blue icon in the Job ability List(light blue=Ice=INT base)
however.. since spells are related to elements and and base stats are related to base stats by color code,
ie: berserk(which is red icon) is bases off of STR(also red colored in gear and items)
this theory woul lead me to believe that it is more probable for Provoke to be based off of INT if anything at all since it has a light blue icon in the Job ability List(light blue=Ice=INT base)
17 posts
It "DOES" mean "Provocation."
But the name is "Provoke"! Edit!
But the name is "Provoke"! Edit!
44 posts
The best thing I've learned as a WAR in a p/t as second tank is to pull with ranged, let primary tank (like a PLD/WAR) provoke and leave it until you know when the mob is gunna go for ur mages, it is a waste of time provoking every 15/30 secs cos the mob WILL change targets and go for the mages, and once both provokes are used and the mob changes targets, the mages start running around screaming "HELP!!!HELP!!!" lol
Edited, Fri Jan 14 09:43:20 2005
Edited, Fri Jan 14 09:43:20 2005
Youre a complete and ******* moron
Anyone who has listened to your idiotic tip has now become a ****** tank
Each action you take in battle creates a hate spike or shreds some hate
Goal of tanking: Create as mush hate as possible
Creating a Hate spike every 30 seconds with Provoke is an essential part of tanking, and provides much better hate control then Provoking only when you lose hate
I have no clue how you got to 75 drg and not have a clue at all about hate mamagement
You sir are a ****** player and should sell your account before you give out more tips like this
Peace
Anyone who has listened to your idiotic tip has now become a ****** tank
Each action you take in battle creates a hate spike or shreds some hate
Goal of tanking: Create as mush hate as possible
Creating a Hate spike every 30 seconds with Provoke is an essential part of tanking, and provides much better hate control then Provoking only when you lose hate
I have no clue how you got to 75 drg and not have a clue at all about hate mamagement
You sir are a ****** player and should sell your account before you give out more tips like this
Peace
15 posts
I agree, it is essential that as a secondary tank you save your voke for when it is needed. Why shoot it off every 30 seconds? That would possibly steal hate from the main tank, and that's just stupid. You should definitely learn to read Sancho.
Umm...he said that technique was for a *secondary* tank; a backup, you know? And he makes good sense for that, saving voke for times when a mob is hellbent on the mages and the main tank has just used it. Learn to read before spouting off at someone like that, yeesh.
Scholar
31 posts
Ok... in my experience as a pld... I have never needed a secondary tank since I learned Shield bash at lvl 15. Also... I have NEVER had a mob go after another player after my second voke. Even if another melee provokes it, the mob wont even sneeze at him. Even a NIN tank wont lose hate right after a provoke, so I'm not entirely sure where your coming from, putting out a scenario where a tank loses hate right after a voke, its just not gonna happen.
Quote:
putting out a scenario where a tank loses hate right after a voke, its just not gonna happen.
Oh, it won't? Even when the two DD skillchain immediately following the Provoke and I MB for 1400+? It can happen, it does happen, and that's all there is to it. What seperates a crappy tank from a good tank is being able to deal with something like this when it happens. And it WILL happen, it's just a matter of time. Even the best tanks lose hate from time to time. A fight will generally end with the SC and an MB that large, but every once in awhile, the mob will have just a sliver of HP left, and it will be very intent on venting it's anger on me.
The good tanks will save a job ability or a big cure for the eventual loss of hate. A few times, the PLD has had to Cover me.
Scholar
28 posts
Just thought I'd note this from my Ballista experiences (on Diabolos) last night. My team consisted of a BRD/NIN, RDM/BLM, and DRK/THF(myself). The other team consisted of a DRG/WAR and 2 WHM/BLMs. The dragoon must've not liked me beating up on her Taru buddies, because she kept trying to use Provoke on me during the course of Ballista... it gives the message "_____ uses Provoke on _____, but misses." Kind of sad, I would hope that it would ***** up my targetting so that it would force me to target the 'voker. But I just thought I'd throw this (potentially) valuable tidbit of information up.
As a matter of fact it does change the targeting. If you manage to provoke someone, they can only deal damage to you no matter who they have targeted for the duration that provoke may last.
3 posts
i have a question for all you nm campers....
i was told the best macro is...
Line #1 /targetnpc
Line #2 /ja "Provoke" <t>
Line #3 = Line #1
Line #4 = Line #2
spamming this over and over, till lets say Argus pops, what in the hell kind of macro are these other guys using, is it Pcp? some kind of Macro controller? if you know a better Auto voke macro then this, post it please.
i was told the best macro is...
Line #1 /targetnpc
Line #2 /ja "Provoke" <t>
Line #3 = Line #1
Line #4 = Line #2
spamming this over and over, till lets say Argus pops, what in the hell kind of macro are these other guys using, is it Pcp? some kind of Macro controller? if you know a better Auto voke macro then this, post it please.
Quote:
umm if ur a whm why would u need provoke?? for all who don't know provoke DOES lower drop rate! ur a whm cast dia on it dia takes .50 seconds to cast.... don't take what i say as offensive just saying :)
from: http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/bestiary.html?fmob=127
i just read this and was wondering about whether this is true (i dont believe it), if anyone knows anything, pleasse tell!
double post
Edited, Fri Aug 6 22:21:25 2004
Edited, Fri Aug 6 22:21:25 2004
This might be in the wrong section.. but as a whm, I am finding it very frustrating to be with a war that does not know how to set up a voke macro. I was wondering how to use the /echo command to set up a voke loop, instead of them having to use voke every 30 sec.
24 posts
Sometimes a voke loop is a really bad idea. WAR's who voke every 30 seconds are kinda gimping themselves unless they have an EXTREMELY coordinated party, because the blm doesn't wanna be letting off a big nuke when the WAR has 10 seconds left to voke. When I tank, I voke at the start of battle, use other abilities like Boost to maintain hate, and then voke again RIGHT when the mob starts to wander (or after a big nuke, whichever comes first.)
I'm thinking Provoke does either a percentage of the enemy's (max) life or of your own (max) life towards the hate. For example on 15%:
lvl 10 Forest Hare has ~200 HP (just guessing) -> means Provoke (from any lvl character) would equal the hate from doing 30 damage to the Hare.
lvl 5 WAR Galka has 104 life -> his Provoke would always equal the hate from doing 15 damage.
I haven't tried doing just Provoke's (with no other hate-earning actions) on one enemy with two greatly different level chars. Anyone that does, please post your results.
lvl 10 Forest Hare has ~200 HP (just guessing) -> means Provoke (from any lvl character) would equal the hate from doing 30 damage to the Hare.
lvl 5 WAR Galka has 104 life -> his Provoke would always equal the hate from doing 15 damage.
I haven't tried doing just Provoke's (with no other hate-earning actions) on one enemy with two greatly different level chars. Anyone that does, please post your results.
25 posts
i hate it when there is a pld main tank and a noob war seconmdary tank that has no clue on what he does.. ugh
Scholar
27 posts
It's called "Provoke."
49 posts
It would be very likely that the enmity increase is higher with a higher level. More damage dealed draws more hate, so as you get into higher levels, doing more damage, it would be fully necessary to draw equally increased hate with provoke.
Secondly, waiting to use provoke can be benefitial. Example: You have a primary tank, a secondary tank, and whatever else. If the primary tank uses provoke to pull, then provokes as soon as possible then, and as soon as possible the next time, he's just building hate. Then the situation comes when the primary tank is close to dying and the secondary tank provokes once, that one provoke doesn't compare to what the primary tank had accumulated and the mob doesn't sway attention.
So I say don't provoke as often as possible. After many battles, especially with the same party, you get to the point where you can practically feel when the mob will be changing targets.
Secondly, waiting to use provoke can be benefitial. Example: You have a primary tank, a secondary tank, and whatever else. If the primary tank uses provoke to pull, then provokes as soon as possible then, and as soon as possible the next time, he's just building hate. Then the situation comes when the primary tank is close to dying and the secondary tank provokes once, that one provoke doesn't compare to what the primary tank had accumulated and the mob doesn't sway attention.
So I say don't provoke as often as possible. After many battles, especially with the same party, you get to the point where you can practically feel when the mob will be changing targets.
Anonymous
Perhaps a better description would be 'increases enmity with the target'? Afterall, that's what it does. I've tested this:
WHM 20 and WAR 9 against steppe hares. WAR needs only one Cure II during the course of the battle, WHM just hangs back and watches until that Cure II is needed. If the WAR provokes at the beginning of combat, the WHM does not get attacked after casting. If the WAR does not provoke, the WHM, on casting, does get attacked until the WAR provokes. The evidence indicates that, as many others have said, hate accumulates. If you are a warrior, and the main tank, please provoke as early and often as possible. Saving it "for an emergency" only helps create an emergency situation.
WHM 20 and WAR 9 against steppe hares. WAR needs only one Cure II during the course of the battle, WHM just hangs back and watches until that Cure II is needed. If the WAR provokes at the beginning of combat, the WHM does not get attacked after casting. If the WAR does not provoke, the WHM, on casting, does get attacked until the WAR provokes. The evidence indicates that, as many others have said, hate accumulates. If you are a warrior, and the main tank, please provoke as early and often as possible. Saving it "for an emergency" only helps create an emergency situation.
Anonymous
Oy, this is just called "Provoke", not "Provocation".
Anonymous
Does the amount of hate you draw go up with level?
1 post
i am trying to learn here,
sorry about my lack of knowledge but how does hate work?
sorry about my lack of knowledge but how does hate work?
45 posts
Yes, the amount of hate does go up.
Think of it as phantom damage...
Provoke at Lv. 5 is like 30 damage.
Provoke at Lv. 30 is like 200 damage.
Think of it as phantom damage...
Provoke at Lv. 5 is like 30 damage.
Provoke at Lv. 30 is like 200 damage.
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