Suggestions for changing the MPK systemFollow

Someone suggested it earlier - cut the amount of XP lost when you die. Honestly, this is a feature that does not make the game fun, challenging, or more competitive (in a good way). Rather, it discourages players from taking chances (which is what makes a game fun), and helping each other out of sticky situations.

Of course death still should carry a penalty. Having to get back to where you are is already pretty bad. However, a nominal XP cut may still be necessary, but even the (cut) cap of 1,200 is a LOT.

This would effect a lot of gameplay mechanics, of course. Moghancement: Experience would be less useful, but it could be used to contribute to gained experience rather than salvage lost experience. Also, higher-level Raises would be less useful, but they could be "tweaked" to make up for their lost utility to shorten the length of weakness.

It's bold, but I'm damn tired of wasting an hour just because I took a chance. You can't take chances in life, but you should be encouraged to do so in a game, to live out your own "fantasy."

*edit* this is not a solution to the MPK problem, I do not think, however, it is important for SE officials to consider.

Edited, Mon Nov 14 22:34:41 2005 by Eleas

Not feasable, as this would only cause more aggro between people, and can also be used as a revenge factor or even just for the hell of it, as with MPK. I know as i PL'd a party and not realizing at the time i used blaze spikes, the mob attacked me and got hurt, and the party got no exp, they wernt very happy about it, as for being attacked by a mob from another party or even AOE, if you're just gonna stand there knowing what will happen then you deserve what you get, anyone with a few brain cells would know to move out of the way, its all part of the game, what would be the point if it was too easy.

Soulrunner - addressing your post on page 19, they send low level char's out to Rolanberry zone point to sell goods without paying taxes. To me, on Titan, if I happen to have to zone, and they get wiped, they have a problem. I am xping, they are trying to save gil. While both may be considered important, saving my own life by zoning is what is important to me while xp'ing. They sit there with Bazaar up, while the rl entity is at school, getting lunch, whatever. If they don't want to die, they need to go somewhere else.

SE - I made a post on page 9. I'll stick to the suggestion. While you may never want to hire me, empower your Sony GM's here with the ability to DIRECTLY ATTACK proven offenders, in public, with damage done (say 50% hp loss) used as a Means to publicly STATE to all witnesses that they will have, say 5 days in jail. Base the jail time on the humiliating butt Whuppin! There is NOTHING politically correct about this game. WE are all murdering things, critters, each other. So, there should be no hesitation in having a GM whupp some serious aZZ in public and publicaly prounounce sentence on the offending party.

Oh, yeah, the offending party can be a Gil seller, Gil buyer, or intentional MPK'r. (puhhhhhhhhhlllllllleeeeeeeezzzzee let me whup up on the gil buyers!!)

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Titan, Dilligaf

First off, I'd like to say that people have mentioned some very important changes to game mechanics that could prevent MPK deaths from occuring. What I want to suggest is to change one of the aspects of the game in hopes of removing the want to MPK in the first place.
To my knowledge, while there are many reasons for MPK, from what I have seen the primary reason would be to remove competition to aquire an item. The item may be for personal use or for its market value. Some of these items of value drop off standard mobs that people do usually not exp off of (tree cuttings, cockatrice meat, ect), but the most sought after items are usually dropped off of NM mobs, which only spawn under certain circumstances.
This may be entirely too complicated or drastic a change to make to a system that has been around for so long, but I believe this may be the solution. Why not make items of value drop off of exp mobs. I know that the reason why some items (lizard tails,earth crystals,ect) are so cheap is because people opt to exp on mobs that drop them so they are readily availible. As we know, once a mob checks as Too Weak, they no longer drop crystals. Would it harm the game mechanics if the same were true for non-crystal drops. Or perhaps a drastic percentage check could be made. A STANDARD mob may have a 1/100 chance of dropping a particularly sought after item, IF the mob checks as Incredibly Tough to the highest memeber to have participated in killing it, but a 1/200 if it was VT, or 1/500 Tough,.....0% for Too Weak). I'm not saying the numbers I mentioned make sense, just an example of how it could work. Another possibility would be to have the that percentage represent the chance that the NM version of the mobs spawns claimed by the pt to have defeated that last mob, much like how olla pequena>media>grande works in RuAvitua works.
This may even prompt people to exp on certain mobs they may have other wise avoided (crabs are often exped over Demons or mobs that prove more difficult dispite how they /check). This would spread people out into new camps. As far as RMT, or gilsellers, if they wanted to camp IT/VT mobs in hopes of getting a drop, they would also have to display skill and gain exp....which would take them a step closer to everyone else who plays this game. And eventually they would lvl up on IT/VT mobs, making the drop rate worse (I know they could die a bunch of times and delvl/hp to try it all again, but at least then they couldn't camp 24/7). The items lvl requirement could actually match the the mobs you were exping on, so someone wouldn't have to wait till they were high lvl to get an item they could have used earlier (moldavite earring/shamans cloak come to mind, I'm sure everyone has an example of this)
I most definatly don't want to devalue items people have already worked hard to get, so drop rates would be poor, but it would change the game for gilsellers and would allow players who don't want to compete with NM hunting pro's/botters while killing "Too Weak" placeholders that others could be exping off of. Just a suggestion, and I'm interested in knowing what others think.

Sugestion: In regards to mobs not agroing until they get to spawn point... allow them to agro players who've already gotten hate. This way bst won't be changed. Otherwise when they leave thier pet they won't have to watch out for agro like they normally would.

A problem I see most often arise with these suggestions is the fact they leave other opertunities open - such as Escort Quests and Garrisons become effortless.

Suggestion:
1) The implementation of a Monster Warping Ability (MWA); where as, a linked/aggroed monster that loses its target(s) "warps" back by despawning and then respawning at its spawn area/homepoint.

2) The implementation of a Monster Temporary Despawn Ability (MTDA); where as, a claimed monster that loses its target(s) despawns to wait for its target(s) to return, and in the case that its target(s) do(es) not return after a period of time it will spawn at its homepoint.

Application:
1) Trained monsters (all those that are considered to have been "zoned" or those taken outside of thier spawn area by any means other then being directly engaged) would pause* momentarily and then would return to their homepoint using their MWA if and only if no players are on its "hate list" and it is not engaged by another player.
* Other players may desire to engage the monster(s); therefor, the momentary pause would give them that opertunity. (i.e. The same kind of pause seen when a monster is 'zoned')

2) Claimed Monsters would use their MTDA after a momentary pause if and only if all of the players on its "hate list" are considered out of the area by either disconnection or "zoning"; however, to prevent abuse of this system, claimed monsters wouldn't instantly respawn, but instead they would wait to respawnd as if they had been killed. During this "waiting period" if one or more of the players on its "hate list" return to the zone before it spawns at its homepoint, the monster will respawn claimed in the postion it was before it despawned. Taking in account that monsters DO regenerate HP while in a non-aggressvie state, the monster may respawn with full HP.

3) Beastmaster (BST) pets that have been Released would use their MWA after a momentary pause. This (1) prevents BST from MPKing and (2) makes the BST job itself a little more dynamic (something S.E. loves to do).

Examples:
#1: A Party "zones" after their puller links to much to handle.
<Partymember(0)> uses a range attack on [Goblin(1)].
<Partymember(0)> aggros [Goblin(2)] as he starts back to camp.
<Randomplayer> casts cure on <Partymember(1)> as he passes by.
<Partymember(0)> now also links [Goblin(3)] which is at camp.
<Partymember(1)> casts escape, but <Partymember(5)> is left behind.
<Partymember(5)> is killed by [Goblin(1)].
[Goblin(1,2)] attack and kill <Randomplayer>.
[Goblin(3)] does nothing because he is at his homepoint area.
[Goblin(2)] uses his MWA after a short pause because he was never engaged.
[Goblin(1)] uses his MTDA after a short pause because that party did just "zone".
15 minutes later [Goblin(1)] respawn at homepoint area because none of the Party Members re-entered the zone.

#2: A Summoner/Black Mage trys to MPK a party.
<SMN/BLM> uses carbuncle to pull [Linking-Monster] to a party's camp.
<SMN/BLM> casts warp.
[Linking-Monster] pauses.
[Linking-Monster] uses his MTDA.
3 minutes later <SMN/BLM> zones back into the zone to see what distruction he has left.
[Linking-Monster] respawns at the postion it despawned.
[Linking-Monster] runs to <SMN/BLM>; attacks and kills <SMN/BLM>.
[Linking-Monster] uses his MWA after a short pause.

***Notice: Monster Warping Ability and Monster Temporary Despawn Ability are just that... Abilities. So, not all monsters would have to them both or they could have one and not the other such as a NM/HNM.

Please help me prefect this idea by e-mailing me at srdauzat@cableone.net or Personal Message me on this site. Thank you.

Suggestion: More dynamis / limbus type zones which include both old and new NMs. Less or even no competition for NMs makes for less MPK. Also lower spawn timers to no more than 2hrs for a spawn max and raise drop rates. Rare/Ex item drop rate should be 100%.

Suggestion: BST and MPK- Allow BSTs to raise, create, or keep their own pet that they could call on and use rather than being forced to use pets in zone or expensive/weak jug pets. A private pet would be very helpful to BSTs and not have aggro ability toward other players.

Suggestion: Rigorously enforce the ToS. Total zero tolerance policy. RMT, MPK, Griefing, Cheating, and so much more and scarce few people doing this stuff ever get so much as a slap on the wrist. It is becoming a frightening reality that on many servers these cheaters are comprising at least half of the server population. This trash needs to be taken out fast before the 360 release of FFXI so that the new players can get into and enjoy the game.

1: Make returning monsters are less aggressive. Either reduce the chance of getting aggro'ed or make it non-aggressive and non-linking to an engaged party. Basically make it so that a mob can still be intentionally engaged, but not left for someone else to deal with, whether it was accidental or intentional. This would include both monsters that defeated the party that engaged them and BST released pets.


Now this can lead to two different types of changes in the mob.
2a: Since the behavior of these monsters have changed, change what they drop/give when defeated themselves. I.e. if the mob drops an "elite" item normally, from say it's an NM, then once it changes to this "cool-down mode" it no longer drops the elite item, but some other less valuable item. Or reduce the XP gained from a cooling down mob.

2b: Change the attacks of the mob. Maybe make it so while it is cooling down it gains TP and refreshes(MP gain) faster, so it will do more damage from abilities and spells. Basically, make it so you don't want to engage a mob that is cooling down.


3a: I know it has been said that the GMs should monitor highly contested, and therefore MPK'ed, NM locations, which is generally infeasible. So instead, if an MPK is repeatedly reported near an NM pop location, have either that entire region's or just the area around the pop location logged. In other words record what happens, from the same logs we get in our chat window plus exact location and times, for about 5 min prior to the pop to about 10-15 min after the NM died. That way if an MPK is reported, the GMs have something to go by. And they also have names of all possible witnesses.

3b: An alternative to having the servers record what happens like the chat logs currently do, would be to have the individual clients keep say a 1 hour record of everything that is happening, even if the chat filters are turned on. Then make it so the GMs could retrieve this information from each of the offended/offending parties.


4: Make an non-aggro area around every zone point. But don't make it unlimited, or some static time limit. Put something in the zoning code that says when everything right at the zone has loaded, then give the player like 30-60 sec to decide what he/she wants to do. In addition, to avoid abuse, make it so while in this zone you can only move. No attacking, healing, buffing, or any other aggo'able actions, while standing in this zone until your timer goes off.


5: Move all of the highly desired items that are obtained from NMs to a BCNM type battle or quest. Make them just as difficult to obtain, but were multiple groups can obtain them at the same time. If it is an item that the developers want to limit the number floating around, then add something like the chocobo license quest, where there is a forced length of time you have to wait until you can complete the quest. Or better yet, add a high fame/level requirement to it and make it non-repeatable.


6: Setup a standard hate generating order for mobs. Then let the players know what they are, or give indicators(i.e. noticeable behavioral changes) as to what gives hate. One such order might be:
Wacking a mob.
Healing someone wacking a mob.
Debuffing a mob.
Buffing/removing harmful buffs someone wacking a mob.
Linking(if applicable).
Normal Aggro.

7: Someone posted about having a duel option. I think that for normal everyday disputes, which GMs probably don't have time to adequately deal with, players should be able to settle between themselves. Let them duke it out in a mutually agreed upon battle in front of everyone. And to make it fair, level cap it to the lower of the two's level, and make sure /blockaid is always on. And when it is over, each person it brought back to full health with no XP lose. Then to make sure it isn't abused, set it so you can only iniate a duel every week or so.

8: Do like Microsoft did with WinXP. Do a file validation test. If a player has invalid files, no updates. And with no updates, then no playing.

Now as for what these changes would fix, let me explain:

1: This would solve the standard drag and drop MPKs, as well as not remove the ability to get mobs as they are returning from a zone or where ever they might have been dragged to trying to kill a player.
2: This would make it so noone would want to steal someone else's mob. For example, if MPKs are a big deal with HNM/NMs because people want the drop bad enough that they are gonna MPK someone to get the mob, then if they aren't gonna get the drop or gonna have to deal with a pissed off mob to do so, they might think twice about trying it in the first place. Then even if they do MPK for a drop, then they just wasted their time, as well as everyone else's.
3: This would enable GMs to be able to see exactly what happened during any supposed event. Making it so that they don't have to go off of word of mouth or get conflicting stories from the opposing parties.
4: This should help with the trains to the zone, especially in areas like Crawlers Nest and Garlaige Citadel. But it would make it so you couldn't just sit in a protected area and kill mobs without worrying about stray aggro. And it would also make sure that when you zone, you have enough time to react to the current situation, but not go AFK for log periods of time while not worrying about dying.
5: This should make it so everyone has a chance of obtaining a highly desired item, but not having to save millions of gil to get it, but without taking away the challenge of obtaining the item. I love the BCNM type battles, they are a challenge and a rush to do. And if multiple people are able to do them for things like Sekrets ring, then there would be no reason or way to MPK someone for a drop.
6: If this list, or one similar, is followed then it should remove the bound mobs attacking anyone that is just passing by, without removing the difficulty of navigating a zone with dagerous mobs. And if players are made aware of what will generate the most hate, then they can make the decisions as to what they want to do near a mob.
7: Other than just being a fun way to settle disputes and lighten the load on the GM ques, this could possibly solve the #1 reason for average everyday non-drop and kill related MPKs. I know I would have loved to done this the other night when dealing with someone that just pissed me off and refused to let up on his unexcusable behavior.
8: Ok this one might not be directly MPK related, but it would stop a lot of people from using 3rd Party programs to cheat and make people want to MPK them because of it.

I know some of these ideas were probably already expressed, but this is my 2 gils worth of advice. Plus, I tried to think of ways to not alter the overall game play or difficulty, while still trying to address some of the issues surrounding what make MPK possible.

I am posting again due to more suggestions, well one specifically. I don't mean to put down a suggestion, but just my opinion to SE.

The idea of eliminating AOE attacks from damaging members outside of a pt is a bad idea, IMO. This adds another tactic to the game and eliminating it would make it too easy picking a pt location or traveling through an area. Not to mention pt's with a power level with just be able to desimate all. If the PL is not gonna be damaged then that player has nothing to worry about except the pt's health. If AOE outside of the pt is eliminated then the mages job becomes easy and boring for the mage. Yes the mage will obtain aggro from the mob from cure ect, but that is only one aspect. AOE is part of the tactics in the game and eliminating it will make the game boring. Please dont take this out. Not to mention that as we know the true cause of MPK is mainly Trains of mobs, not just AOE. AOE is small compared to the trains gil sellers or pissed off players create.

Make the mob "zone out" with the player it was following and instantly re-appear at its natural spawn point. Thought I dont know what that would do to NMs on lottery pop with placeholders.


What is the FFXI community take on unintentional mpk? You aggro something unwillingly and you run your *** off to zone it (who wants to loose 1k + exp huh) and people end up killed by it.

I have seen many people posting about Gilsellers on the game. i have heard how many other GM's work those people out of the system. When someone has been in an area for "X" amount of time they get flagged. if they have high amount of gil aquired all at once with no explination they get flagged. If they loose high amount of gil at a time without buying anything they get flagged. It's your world SE you made this place a reality. If you can't play God on it and remove problem people then let us players deal with it our own way. I know many people including myself who just get bored and wouldn't mind spending a day MPK gilsellers and not get in trouble for it. Also i have seen that you have made Empress band "Emperior band" RA/EX which i think is a great thing. Many people need those items to lvl with and if they are willing to give the effort to camp this NM to get drop then atleast if you get beat you know it's going to someone that can use this item not sell it. Make all NM drops Rare/ex that people can wear. Things such as behamath hide and Adamantois hide might be hard to make like that because people use those to craft with and they are high level mobs. If anyone disagree with making items RA/EX please post, and give reason maybe if they see alot of people agree to this they might do it.

As with a case last night, a party i was in doing very well in quicksand caves, unfortunately i had to leave, as i had friends comming round, when i got back to the game, i was told by one of the party i had been with that i was lucky to have left since 20 mins after i had gone, the party had moved camp due to exp not being very good, and unfortunatly for them they'd moved into a bst's exp spot, the bst then released a pet right by the party which aggroed them and wiped them out, obviously the party broke up because of it. and all due to this bst laying claim to territory that actually dosnt even belong to them personally anyway.

Edited, Thu Nov 17 05:38:01 2005 by Redzebrass