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MPK Issues to be Addressed

Addressing MPK Issues MPK (Monster Player Kill) is a form of player harassment that has plagued many MMORPGs. MPK involves using one's character to purposely cause damage to other players or to unfairly take another's claimed target in the midst of battle. Several measures will be introduced in the next version update to counter these issues. The upcoming measures are intended to deal with issues regarding the acquisition of items and claiming of monsters, rather than focusing on direct involvement in player disputes. In previous updates, we have dealt with problems between players by changing fiercely competed-for items to Ex/Rare, changing the locations of certain notorious monsters, and introducing measures against the use of third-party tools that violate the user agreement. Several types of battlefield and burning circle areas were also added to decrease disputes between players. The following measures were introduced in the version update on August 1, 2005 to further alleviate the issue. -The command /blockaid was added.*(1) -"Trade" offers could no longer be received from characters on a player's blacklist. -Players were made unable to use spells or abilities to claim a monster as soon as it appeared.*(2) However, interaction and competition with other players are what makes an MMORPG enjoyable, and we have no desire to sacrifice those aspects of FINAL FANTASY XI. Players may be affected by situations caused by others, such as suddenly finding oneself in the midst of a train of monsters led by another player trying to escape. Player interaction can be either positive or negative and is an important part of the game. It is essential for players to realize the importance of this interaction and enjoy it, cooperating with one another to solve any minor disputes that may arise. Unfortunately, there have been several players as of late who have used game features to harass others, particularly in the form of MPK, or taking advantage of a monster's enmity to make it attack others and disrupt the game. It is the role of the GM team to resolve such issues, but in several cases it can be difficult to determine whether a player intentionally caused a problem after consulting only the chat and action logs. Often there is a discrepancy between both sides of the dispute's claims. In such cases, it would not be proper to choose a side based on personal opinion or to listen to only one side's claims. Therefore, the issues best resolved have been those actually witnessed by the GM. Such difficulties have caused player disputes that require third-party intervention to increase, and we realize that in-game measures must be introduced to alleviate the situation. In the next version update, we plan to introduce the following measures. -If a player is KO'd or moves to a new area while fighting a monster at a location in which the monster does not usually inhabit, the monster will not begin attacking others in the surrounding area. Instead, it will simply disappear. This measure refers to the radius that the monster walks about when not engaged in battle. After being drawn out of that radius during battle and released, the monster will disappear, and then reappear after a short time in its proper location. In addition, the monster that reappears will be the exact same monster that disappeared, and not another monster of the same type. This rule will not apply to notorious monsters. -Monsters that have been rendered immobile with the "Bind" spell will not attack anyone other than the party or alliance that it is targeting. The GM team will continue to penalize players who purposely harass others. The GMs will not deal with player disputes after hearing only one position, but will strive to find a solution after consulting all sides. We ask for your cooperation and understanding, and hope that you enjoy interacting with other players in the world of FINAL FANTASY XI. *(1) The /blockaid command The command "/blockaid" was added. "/blockaid" has the following effect: Magical assistance (such as "Cure" and "Protect"), trades, party invites etc. from non-party/alliance characters will be blocked. The "/blockaid" effect will be canceled if the player temporarily logs out to the PlayOnline Viewer, logs out, changes areas, or is KO'd. Command/Subcommands: /blockaid on Activate the blockaid effect. /blockaid off Cancel the blockaid effect. /blockaid Display current blockaid status. *(2) Claiming monsters Players are no longer able to use spells or abilities to claim a monster as soon as it appears. If players attempt to use spells or abilities to claim a monster before a set amount of time has passed since it appeared, they will be unable to use those spells or abilities again for a certain duration. FINAL FANTASY XI Development Team (12/08/2005)

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interesting
# Dec 08 2005 at 12:18 PM Rating: Decent
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928 posts
I actually really like this update. after all they did get this information straight from us. My main concern however is this:

Quote:
After being drawn out of that radius during battle and released, the monster will disappear, and then reappear after a short time in its proper location. In addition, the monster that reappears will be the exact same monster that disappeared, and not another monster of the same type. This rule will not apply to notorious monsters.


Does this mean that if the NM disappears, that it will not reappear as the NM again? I could see some potential problems with this with people intentionally disposing of NM's but then again, there could definately be some issues if they did allow it to repop also. althought i would think it would be more fair.

I dunno, but i still like it =P
RE: interesting
# Dec 08 2005 at 12:33 PM Rating: Decent
Maybe if its a NM it just wont disappear if it goes out of its normal area :P
RE: interesting
# Dec 08 2005 at 12:32 PM Rating: Decent
You even copied the quote directly...

Quote:
This rule will not apply to notorious monsters.


It seems to me that this rule was created because of places like Garlaige Citadel where trains are a huge problem. If someone trains a few monsters to the exit, everyone in that path has to exit too in case the monster aggros their party on the way back. This eliminates that.
*(2) Claiming monsters
# Dec 08 2005 at 12:07 PM Rating: Decent
*(2) Claiming monsters

i dont see how this will effect 3rd party software all they have to do now is make there bot wait the amount of time it takes to become claimable. this really just makes it easier because now even if it pops right in front of you the bots have an extra second or so to get over to it and claim. this has only had a negative effect on me so far.
RE: *(2) Claiming monsters
# Dec 20 2005 at 12:21 PM Rating: Decent
ya they spam provoke but now they can just set it to start spaming after a second or whatever the amount of time it is you have to wait. a machine can be programmed to do that someone not useing a bot cannot now. i keep trying to claim to soon. im not botting but im getting penalized. also if i hit my ability to soon it wont work after that so i cant spam my macro. this is a horrible fix.
RE: *(2) Claiming monsters
# Dec 08 2005 at 12:33 PM Rating: Decent
This is great to get rid of the BOT(s). A BOT usully spam provoke or whatever ability/spell until they get claim. Now with this fix, the BOT will try to spam provoke, but the first one that lands will probably be before the set timer, thus the ability wont work (this was what was already implemented). Now to top it off, the BOT will be penalize because he tried to provoke too soon, he wont be able to use provoke for a set amount of time.

This fix gives way better chance at claiming mobs from ppl using BOTs.

Edited, Thu Dec 8 12:38:40 2005
RE: *(2) Claiming monsters
# Dec 08 2005 at 12:11 PM Rating: Decent
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726 posts
Quote:
Players are no longer able to use spells or abilities to claim a monster as soon as it appears.


Doesn't say you can't hit it with your sword, staff, dagger, etc. If it pops right in front of you, poke it in the eye.
dunno what to think
# Dec 08 2005 at 12:00 PM Rating: Decent
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3,451 posts
I don't know if I like the idea of the mob dissapearing, seems kind of lame to me, and unrealistic, I mean I know it's all fantasy, but I don't think that the mob dissappearing is the right way to do this. So if a BST does leave on a mob that can link or aggro, it'll disappear?
Um...how will this affect BST xping?
# Dec 08 2005 at 11:59 AM Rating: Decent
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726 posts
Having several BST friends and having ptyd with them many times, how will the mob disappearing affect xping for them? As many good BSTs will confirm, mobs they Charm to xp with are not usually in the exact area they orginated from. BST will Charm and move 1-2 desired monsters to fight with to their camp and rotate them (i.e. fight til one is almost dead and switch to the fully healed one while the released one recovers). If the monster they release then dissappears, then they are out a monster to fight with. Unless I'm missing something, I'm suprised SE didn't think of this and if they did, does it mean they don't consider it that important?

I know it is hard to fix problems without creating other problems in the process sometimes but is this really the best solution? Having a NM dissappear and reappear where it belongs is a good idea but not for regular mobs a BST is using to xp with.

I think the idea of having the monster return to its original spot on its own but not aggroing or linking with surrounding monsters fixes the problem without causing xp issues for BSTs.

Also, if GMs have such a hard time figuring out who is wrong/right in MPK issues(majority of which I think happen during NM fights), why don't they just have a GM present during NM fights? Serket is the biggest example I personally have seen where MPK runs rampant. All it would take is for a GM to be there when the NM pops. If gilsellers and the prick (pardon my language) LSs know they are being watched then they wont be so inclined to MPK the hell out of everybody. Worst part about Serket too is that its in a XP pty area so ppl there xping usually get caught in the crossfire. Sadly though, anymore these days, when xp ptys see ppl starting to camp Serket they just leave which isn't right.

If GMs can be present to monitor this stuff better, maybe instead of getting the "We will look into it." response, we will get a "We saw what happened and are taking care of it." See doesn't that sound better. I'm sorry but the "We will look into it." response just sounds like the GM is on a coffee break and doesn't want to be bothered.

Anything to improve the game is a good thing and just adds to its longevity. Keep at it SE.
RE: Um...how will this affect BST xping?
# Dec 12 2005 at 11:02 AM Rating: Default
Quote:
Players are no longer able to use spells or abilities to claim a monster as soon as it appears.
If players attempt to use spells or abilities to claim a monster before a set amount of time has passed since it appeared, they will be unable to use those spells or abilities again for a certain duration.


So now when I'm farming in Tahrongi for seeds (I garden a lot) and a sapling pops I can't use Banish II to kill it quickly so I finish farming sooner?

And how long must I wait before I can claim it? Some pts use Provoke to pull that will also stop that if the mob isn't already there.

I do think this will help unluckier players get nms such as the EMP. I've camped it a few times, but someone with rng, widescan and/or provoke always gets it. I'v been trying for 8 months off and on. Some of us actually want to the drops and not sell it. This should help us.

I like the idea of mobs disappearing when zoned out of their normal area. After leveling my whm in citadel and dying (who knows how many times) I have rejected pts there at that levell.
RE: Um...how will this affect BST xping?
# Dec 09 2005 at 8:59 AM Rating: Decent
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726 posts
Actually it's not that hard at all. Since all the NMs don't spawn at the same time you wouldn't need to have that many ppl. Since most NMs have a "spawn window" it's not efficient to have a GM present the whole time. SE has the game progaming so it wouldn't be that hard to have a flag program for the GMs that notify them when a NM actually pops, then the GM can pop in and observe. If anybody gets out of had, "bam" they are gone. So simple.
RE: Um...how will this affect BST xping?
# Dec 08 2005 at 1:45 PM Rating: Decent
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2,396 posts
Having a GM present to witness each and every NM spawn might be the "best" solution, but it's simply not a feasable one and people need to accept this. Square-Enix is not omnipotent, possessed of infinite times and manpower, despite the fact that this is their game.
RE: Um...how will this affect BST xping?
# Dec 08 2005 at 2:55 PM Rating: Decent
You (and many others) are totally missing the point. The reason people MPK so rampantly is because people know that SE isn't going to take action. If you lived in a country where theft was rampant, and law enforcement didn't care about it even though it was illegal, you'd probably rip something off without a second chance. THAT IS THE MESSAGE S-E GIVES with their GMs. "Sorry, our hands are tied. Sorry, we can't do anything about it. We will look into it." These are BLOW-OFF answers. We're not asking S-E to position millions of GMs on all the worlds so that they can babysit us, we're asking them to actually do something about the people who are proven to MPK people.

The one time I was MPKed, that very person sent me a /tell saying "I'm going to MPK you" and then they did, and when I called the GM, the GM didn't do a single thing, despite the person outright saying they MPKed me on purpose. People continue to break the rules because S-E clearly conveys the message that they aren't going to do anything about people who do.
RE: Um...how will this affect BST xping?
# Dec 08 2005 at 1:23 PM Rating: Good
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409 posts
Quote:
If a player is KO'd or moves to a new area while fighting a monster at a location in which the monster does not usually inhabit, the monster will not begin attacking others in the surrounding area. Instead, it will simply disappear.

This measure refers to the radius that the monster walks about when not engaged in battle. After being drawn out of that radius during battle and released, the monster will disappear, and then reappear after a short time in its proper location. In addition, the monster that reappears will be the exact same monster that disappeared, and not another monster of the same type. This rule will not apply to notorious monsters.


This says nothing of when bsts release their pets. Unless, of course, they are releasing them because they died or changed areas. I'm assuming this part does not refer to bsts, but to people who actually train large amounts of mobs.
RE: Um...how will this affect BST xping?
# Dec 08 2005 at 2:15 PM Rating: Good
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272 posts
You quoted the answer like the guy above.
Quote:

This measure refers to the radius that the monster walks about when not engaged in battle. After being drawn out of that radius during battle and released, the monster will disappear


There's your answer
/blockaid?
# Dec 08 2005 at 11:56 AM Rating: Default
Maybe I'm just a little inexperienced as to having people try to MPK me (only happened from from a disgruntled BST...), but what is the significance of blocking the trade offers? Does that somehow tie up your abilities? I see it referenced twice in the updates, but I have no understanding how that will lead to my demise.

Any explanations? Or should I just always refuse candy from high-level strangers while camping?
RE: /blockaid?
# Dec 08 2005 at 12:10 PM Rating: Decent
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928 posts
/blockaid is used while camping NM's so that anyone OUTSIDE of your alliance CANNOT heal you in anyway. including buffs of any sort. its common, especially in higher level NM camps for a PLD (or sometimes, but rarely a WHM) to cast cure 4 on the tank of the party fighting, and then immediately using invinceable to get tons of hate. then runs around kiting the mob until it turns yellow again.

the blockaid feature is a nice way to get rid of this. so if you dont want someone stealing your mob, make use of it^^ fortunately for us, gilsellers are still to dumb to use this feature =P
yeah right >.>
# Dec 08 2005 at 11:46 AM Rating: Decent
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272 posts
IMO they can make all kinds of promises/changes they want. The GM's have never been helpful to me. There was this one time someone tried MPKing my party in Crawler's Nest. She admitted it and I had the GM view my chat log and also talk to the other 5 party members AND other parties in the area. So there were PLENTY of witnesses and SHE ADMITTED IT! Guess what happened.... Nothing! 5 minutes later she was seen in balista haveing fun.

The mobs disappearing at the zone is nice, and I'm glad they are doing that, but as far as GM's go, I'll believe it when I see it.
RE: yeah right >.>
# Dec 08 2005 at 1:54 PM Rating: Decent
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79 posts
The process of checking who was right or wrong takes more than 5 minutes, and should even in "clear cut" cases like your example.
I.E. Deciding what to about the transgression, and clearing that with the GM's supervisor.

Also the other changes should cut down on the case load and allow for more timely GM arrivals. (Which I think was the major cause of the complaint that it takes hours for them to show.) Giving them more time to resolve issues more completely rather than rushing on to the next case. Her case might have just resulted in a stern warning that if she does it again there will be punishment. They like the players, its the Gil sellers and griefers that we both hate.

claiming
# Dec 08 2005 at 11:40 AM Rating: Default
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627 posts
stopping people claiming kills faster wont stop mpking... itll stop those that have spent ages camping a monster from actually camping it.. thanks a lot SE.....
RE: claiming
# Dec 08 2005 at 2:39 PM Rating: Good
21 posts
Actually, that's been in the game for some time now.

Quote:
The following measures were introduced in the version update on August 1, 2005 to further alleviate the issue.

-The command /blockaid was added.*(1)
-"Trade" offers could no longer be received from characters on a player's blacklist.
-Players were made unable to use spells or abilities to claim a monster as soon as it appeared.*(2)

wow
# Dec 08 2005 at 11:26 AM Rating: Decent
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2,214 posts
You mean no more ppls pulling Corse type mobs to pts fighting Tiamat!??!!? w00t:P
____________________________
http://na.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodestone/character/729735/
Impressed...
# Dec 08 2005 at 11:19 AM Rating: Excellent
I'm really impressed that SE listened and is going to make these changes. A few weeks back, a representative of SE started a thread asking for suggestions about how to change the MPK system. The two changes that they are making may be a direct result of many of the wishes of the players. Both of the changes were asked for multiple times in that thread.

Great job SE, way to pay attention to what your customers want.

Edited, Thu Dec 8 11:24:47 2005
Nice nice....
# Dec 08 2005 at 11:12 AM Rating: Decent
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550 posts
I guess this would have several bases covered for mpk attempts. Dunno though... something seems missing.... probably just me though.
RE: Nice nice....
# Dec 08 2005 at 11:46 AM Rating: Decent
Seems like a good thing, but I have to say I'm with you on that. There are more than enough mobs AROUND NMs to still take out an entire alliance. Aggro a few of the surrounding mobs (Ex: O-hat, Jormy, etc.) of the and die in the middle of the alliance and you've got a person MPKing. Link parties can't always control the pops in an area, and if players REALLY want to MPK, it's not going to be difficult to target those mobs and take them the short distance to the alliance that's fighting. I don't know though... depends on how large this "radius" is going to be. Doesn't seem like this is going to work as well as planned.
RE: Nice nice....
# Dec 10 2005 at 7:22 PM Rating: Decent
This system is already happening I saw a angry Ghoul chasing a low level player back into Selbina last night and as the player zoned the Ghoul stopped and promptly disapeared.

Now there is no slaughter of low-level players at zone points by angry mob's left unforfilled after its target vanished I really dont see how anyone who enjoys playing the game can find any fault with this method of disposing of a unwanted creature.

Let the challenging creatures remain where they should be, and not hanging out by the zone points grabbing unsuspecting players.
hmmm
# Dec 08 2005 at 11:11 AM Rating: Decent
hello OCHi's kote!
Let's hope this works.
# Dec 08 2005 at 11:05 AM Rating: Decent
It sure would be nice to see an end to the Diabolos HNMLS drama show.
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