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IGE is getting suedFollow

#27 Jun 02 2007 at 10:19 AM Rating: Good
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I haven't read any of the replies, so this may have already been stated... but IGE does not "farm" gil, they are a currency reseller. They would not be akin to the person behind you in a theater kicking your seat, but more like a guy sitting next to them encouraging them to kick your seat by offering incentives to do so. Not that that really matters, but just important to remember that those RMT we hate so much aren't IGE employees.
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#28 Jun 02 2007 at 10:23 AM Rating: Decent
I'll probably get rated down, since people don't like the bearer of bad news, but IGE is just a small piece to the RMT problem. There are hundreds of different RMT sites, and I would figure that people probably mostly use those anyway. IGE has an American office to their company, mainstream advertising, etc, so they would have to be more expensive then the sites where the gil/soldsellers just sell it themselves.

I wish them the best of luck with it, but it doesnt sound to me like it's going to go anywhere. The only people who could probably successfully sue IGE are the the game companies (SE, Blizzard, PlayNC, etc), and I have no clue why they aren't. Other people are getting filthy rich off of their creations.

Edited, Jun 2nd 2007 2:26pm by dacypher
#29 Jun 02 2007 at 10:25 AM Rating: Excellent
Neispace wrote:
Why isnt Blizzard bringing a suit?

The bell has run! To arms men! To arms!!

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6171627.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;1
#30 Jun 02 2007 at 10:37 AM Rating: Good
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I have read the posts of the people in that forum in the Escapist, and all I can say is this:

They are obviously not MMORPG players at all.

So their opinions aren't valid. The attorney seems to be very involved in the issue, and, if he doesn't play an MMORPG at all, at least he has really documented himself very well. This means, he is a very good attorney and has vry good chances at success. The problem is, ususally the judges are probably not video game players, and I doubt they even know how to turn on an XBOX360, or even less likely to know how to even use a PC. Thus, this case will be like trying to make a caveman understand why it is wrong to hunt an endangered species in the wild without a permit. Sorry if my comparison doesn't make sense.

Well, hope they win that lawsuit so he can come defend FFXI players, too, and we can get rid of all this bull the RMT make us go through.
#31 Jun 02 2007 at 10:41 AM Rating: Decent
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IGE says they don't "Own" the gil, but they are a mediator like Napster, they take your money, and someone else's gil and swap them, chargeing basically a broker's fee. It will also be hard to charge IGE or gilsellers, when they are based outside of the US.
#32 Jun 02 2007 at 10:47 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
IGE says they don't "Own" the gil, but they are a mediator like Napster, they take your money, and someone else's gil and swap them, chargeing basically a broker's fee. It will also be hard to charge IGE or gilsellers, when they are based outside of the US.


Did you read the interview?

The lawyer prosecuting the case against IGE mentioned how this is similar to drug dealers who facilitate the trade but never have any contact with or possession of any drugs yet can still be prosecuted under conspiracy charges.
#33 Jun 02 2007 at 10:48 AM Rating: Good
Benderbrau wrote:
It will also be hard to charge IGE or gilsellers, when they are based outside of the US.


IGE is actually one of the few RMT companies that is based in the US. They are in NYC, if I remember right. They were a splinter off from My Super Sales, which was one of the first RMT companies ever which was started by an American.

So, if anyone can be brought down and made an example of, it's IGE. Unfortunetly, as my above post said, I really don't know how much of a dent in the RMT trade that would cause these days, with most people buying currency directly from the farmers.
#34 Jun 02 2007 at 11:03 AM Rating: Excellent
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kappachan, Eater of Souls wrote:


I wonder if this post will get removed? >.>;


Nope, it won't. Death to IGE!
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#35 Jun 02 2007 at 11:07 AM Rating: Decent
Quote:
They are obviously not MMORPG players at all.

So their opinions aren't valid.


are you implying that the entire court that will be handling this case will be avid MMO players?
#36 Jun 02 2007 at 11:11 AM Rating: Decent
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This case is rather big RMT wise. It sets an example from here on out. If they win and other people sue IGE with nearly identical cases, they win almost automatically. This case is big in the MMO world, expect SE to follow suit soon also or blizzard will take charge by going head first into taking out various RMT sites. I'll be looking at this closely, I suggest others do the same.
#37 Jun 02 2007 at 11:36 AM Rating: Default
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This isn't the first time IGE has run into legal actions. So far no one has been successful against IGE, I doubt this would turn out any differently.
#38 Jun 02 2007 at 11:50 AM Rating: Decent
Every place has there rules, posted to told most of the time
In this case, you have to read it... and agree
Say the bar i play pool at alot, not aginst the law for somone to be there under 18, just the bar's rule, but if somone under 18 refuses to go, they can call on the cops to help enforce there rules
Sae thing can be said in this case, Blizzard and SE can call in the law to help enforce there rules

PS im not very good at english

#39 Jun 02 2007 at 12:21 PM Rating: Decent
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dacypher wrote:
Benderbrau wrote:
It will also be hard to charge IGE or gilsellers, when they are based outside of the US.


IGE is actually one of the few RMT companies that is based in the US. They are in NYC, if I remember right. They were a splinter off from My Super Sales, which was one of the first RMT companies ever which was started by an American.

So, if anyone can be brought down and made an example of, it's IGE. Unfortunetly, as my above post said, I really don't know how much of a dent in the RMT trade that would cause these days, with most people buying currency directly from the farmers.


Unfortunately, not anymore. IGE is owned by a new group in Hong Kong, their HQ is no longer in the USA :(
#40 Jun 02 2007 at 12:29 PM Rating: Decent
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I wish RMT was like it is in WoW sans the spamming.

Oftentimes from what WoW players have told me (feel free to correct me if this information is incorrect) The RMT gold farmers are in out of the way places just farming etc. for gold.

They're not actively denying the players Gear/Access to content like they are in FF.

(again please let me know if this is wrong)
#41 Jun 02 2007 at 12:41 PM Rating: Decent
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PS: Here is where the news of IGE being sold was officially announced.
#42 Jun 02 2007 at 12:47 PM Rating: Decent
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I think it would be cool to see SE and blizard get together for this and combine there power to try and get IGE out of all mmorpgs instead of just wow. I know this will probably never happen but o well a guy can wish.
#43 Jun 02 2007 at 2:11 PM Rating: Good
Quote:
Quote:
IGE says they don't "Own" the gil, but they are a mediator like Napster, they take your money, and someone else's gil and swap them, chargeing basically a broker's fee. It will also be hard to charge IGE or gilsellers, when they are based outside of the US.


Did you read the interview?

The lawyer prosecuting the case against IGE mentioned how this is similar to drug dealers who facilitate the trade but never have any contact with or possession of any drugs yet can still be prosecuted under conspiracy charges.



QFT!!!!

I'm a journalist, and I used to write stories about methamphetamine labs in Central California. The "broker" position that some say applies to IGE is similar to the absentee "landlords" who lived in San Francisco, while renting their homes to Mexican nationals who came across the border to engage in the drug trade. The arrangement gives the worker bees a place to manufacture and sell their meth... and if they get caught, then it's extremely difficult to connect them to the real dealers, aka the absentee landlords, who can claim they had absolutely no idea what was going on.

On the other hand, there must be an easy-to-track paper (or digital) trail linking gil farmers and buyers with IGE... and, I don't see how IGE can play the "I had no idea this was wrong" card. If the company is indeed merely a broker (aka dealer), then they're still guilty of a) profiting off of the intellectual property of SE, and b) adversly affecting the gameplay of said intellectual property, which DOES translate to a diminshed quality of play for legit, rate-paying customers.

Someone compared IGE's role to that of Napster. Lets not forget, Napster got sued too... and lost! And, the Napster case set an entirely new precedent that other mp3 sites had to follow, forever changing the digitial music trade on the Internet.

I'm surprised nobody has sued IGE until now.

Let's hope this makes some progress!
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#44 Jun 02 2007 at 2:22 PM Rating: Decent
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Yeah, what happens when all of the people farming gold in WoW leave that game? More of them end up in ours. :/ If they're going to go after IGE like that, they should try to get them out of all games, not just one.

I hope they win the lawsuit, and I hope they go after the people in FFXI next.
#45 Jun 02 2007 at 2:22 PM Rating: Default
I don't think this will work. Just think about it for a second here. If there really was all this distuption that the plaintif is claiming... then why are they still in buisness? Because there are consumers, and that is the problem, not the farmers and sellers. If you really want to see it go away, don't use the service. Until that time though it will be here and in the next MMO that comes out until people as a whole stop paying for it. I doubt that IGE is sweating this much at all.
#46 Jun 02 2007 at 2:30 PM Rating: Default
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I'm not a lawyer, but even to me it seems quite simple to get this case thrown out of court. All the defence lawyer has to do is ask the client "can you prove, here and now that any person(s) who are engaged in RMT have traded with our client, and are not members from other firms?"

You cant. We know there are RMT in FFXI but could you state with 100% accuracy which site they work for? No. And if it did get passed, whats to stop someone suing you for outclaiming them on an HNM because their $15 entertainment is being effected by you?

Defence could also argue that a player has no legal right to sue them, and that Blizzard has in place policies themselves, so if the clients entertainment is being effected he/she should be suing Blizzard for not taking appropriate action (i.e. stopping 10 day trial so RMT wont have throw away accounts to spam people with).

Its a nice thought but a major no. Only if an MMO attacks for copyright violations (selling copyright material) or something, and they are not willing to do that because if they lose, they could get sued for banning RMT.
#47 Jun 02 2007 at 2:35 PM Rating: Decent
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Don't take my earlier statement the wrong way, I hate rmt as much as anyone else, but it seems like the scum always go free, and get away with murder.
#48 Jun 02 2007 at 2:46 PM Rating: Good
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Lexxuk wrote:
I'm not a lawyer, but even to me it seems quite simple to get this case thrown out of court. All the defence lawyer has to do is ask the client "can you prove, here and now that any person(s) who are engaged in RMT have traded with our client, and are not members from other firms?"

You cant. We know there are RMT in FFXI but could you state with 100% accuracy which site they work for? No. And if it did get passed, whats to stop someone suing you for outclaiming them on an HNM because their $15 entertainment is being effected by you?

Defence could also argue that a player has no legal right to sue them, and that Blizzard has in place policies themselves, so if the clients entertainment is being effected he/she should be suing Blizzard for not taking appropriate action (i.e. stopping 10 day trial so RMT wont have throw away accounts to spam people with).

Its a nice thought but a major no. Only if an MMO attacks for copyright violations (selling copyright material) or something, and they are not willing to do that because if they lose, they could get sued for banning RMT.


You forget that as part of these hearings, they can get ALL of the paperwork that IGE has dealing with where they get the gil, transactions, they can even get blizzard to provide the in-game logs to then prove that the person was disrupting the other peoples game playing. There is a lot of jurisdiction in terms of the law that can help the plaintiff in this case. Beyond the fact that this website is already breaking the ToS of the game itself, the court system could easily just rule that they are no longer allowed to sell in-game currency without the express permission of the company that operates the game.
#49 Jun 02 2007 at 3:09 PM Rating: Default
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If in fact all the gil selling companys do stop selling gil to people, alot of players who buy gil on the game, eventually cause alot of people to quit the game.

I dont buy gil, but know alot of others who do, same thing all of them say, dont got time to farm, they have work in morning so they buy, to get by in the game and I know alot of people on this game buy gil and dont say anything.

So, if this does stop it, expect the game go downward spiral.
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#50 Jun 02 2007 at 3:15 PM Rating: Decent
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I'm not a lawyer, but even to me it seems quite simple to get this case thrown out of court. All the defence lawyer has to do is ask the client "can you prove, here and now that any person(s) who are engaged in RMT have traded with our client, and are not members from other firms?"


Hmmm... well, I guess if I were the plaintiff's attorney, I'd just bring a laptop and log into my linkshell's Web site.

I'd then show the judge, jury and audience the banner ad that reads:

IGE! BUY YOUR GILZ HERE FOR FFXI!

And then I'd rest my case.

Seriously, you guys are thinking about this too much. It's perfectly clear IGE is engaged in RMT activities in FFXI, and it's perfectly clear that RMT has had a detrimental affect on this game. This case has a great chance of being successful.

Edited, Jun 2nd 2007 4:17pm by Thayos
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#51REDACTED, Posted: Jun 02 2007 at 3:25 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) This is so stupid, I can't believe anybody actually thinks anything is going to change...
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