I know the tank question has already been answered to the OP's satisfaction but just wanted to add a bit more info.
In FFXI when you have a party to kill mobs or do events, every member of that party usually has a specific role. Roles may include healing support, general support to enhance the abilities of others in the party or impair the abilities of the enemy (buff and debuff), damage dealing (physical or magical) etc. In a balanced party, 1 person's job is to hold the attention of the enemy so that the enemy does not attack party members who are more vulnerable. That job needs two things - great defensive abilities and the ability to draw hate from the enemy. The work "tank" is used because as a metaphor, it fits - think of the massive armor.
Defense can be supplied in one of 2 ways. There is "blood tanking" where the tank is just good at soaking up hits with great defense. The best blood tank is a Paladin because they have the best defensive skills and gear available to them. Paladins grab and hold hate using many of their specific skills and abilities, including the ability to heal themselves and others, flash, bash, etc as well as abilities from their sub job, usually Warrior for provoke. They also have access to a lot of enmity + gear. Hate is also generated by doing damage but a Pld is generally not the best damage dealer.
The second type of tanking is "blink tanking" where the tank is good at surviving because they don't get hit. This is done through high evasion skill and Utsusemi - shadows that absorb hits. The best blink tank is a Ninja. Ninjas generate hate using subjob skills such as warrior provoke, same as a Pld, plus abilities and spells from the job. Using the ninja spells generates hate very effectively, as well as throwing shuriken (not done often because of cost). Ninjas can also be very good damage dealers which also helps to generate hate.
Edited, Jan 6th 2008 10:00am by Lokithor
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- Noob question: what is tanking? more in post 16 & 36
Noob question: what is tanking? more in post 16 & 36Follow
32 posts
ok im back after my night
I was gonna go to valefor server cuz my friend said he would hook me up with some stuff, but i might choose a different server
also thanks everyone for your help, and if you want keep adding on
I was gonna go to valefor server cuz my friend said he would hook me up with some stuff, but i might choose a different server
also thanks everyone for your help, and if you want keep adding on
bsphil wrote:
UltKnightGrover wrote:
Ninjas cannot tank until level 37 because of their lack of Utsusemi: Ni.
This is not true. Bad NIN tanks can't tank before 37. The problem being, since everyone and their brother needs /NIN for tons of different jobs, that's a lot of people partying pre-37, which allows for plenty of sh*tty tanks to roll on through.
lolnin...
Shaunessy wrote:
Unless you can kill something before it gets 6 hits off on you NINs are one of the worst tanks in the game pre 37. They have no DEF, EVA at that level is severely lacking and their native HP pool is weak. Give me a WAR/MNK, SAM/WAR, MNK/WAR or a PLD/WAR and all of them will out tank a NIN pre-Ni. Hell even my WAR/DRK was a better tank than NIN/WAR before 37.
lolnin...
lolnin...
Incorrect, NIN is still a very viable tank pre-37.
Between Hojo, Kurayami, Jubaku, and the good amount of Evasion gear available, a good NIN can do quite a bit to not get taken down in 6 hits.
As was already said, EVERYONE takes NIN to 37, so there's a lot of garbage NINs out there, don't just assume that no NINs can tank pre-37.
Edited, Jan 7th 2008 2:41am by KodoReturns
~~ Puppetmaster // Scholar // Thief // Dancer // Blue Mage // Corsair // Geomancer // Ninja // Ranger // Summoner ~~
Quote:
Unless you can kill something before it gets 6 hits off on you NINs are one of the worst tanks in the game pre 37. They have no DEF, EVA at that level is severely lacking and their native HP pool is weak. Give me a WAR/MNK, SAM/WAR, MNK/WAR or a PLD/WAR and all of them will out tank a NIN pre-Ni. Hell even my WAR/DRK was a better tank than NIN/WAR before 37.
lolnin...
lolnin...
Speak for yourself. Just because you can't, doesn't mean that it can't be done. I only have my NIN to 40, but I sure was the damn tank when I was pre-37. Only died once too out of all the parties to 40. How? Mijin Gakure to kill the first mob after everyone in PT got to 37 and we decided to disband (the mob I killed was a link from the mob that got the last PT member the exp to get to 37).
Tank - in FFXI terms, Tank is the description of the role of the person(s) in a party who will hold the attention of the enemy to keep them from attacking the more vulnerable party members. "Tanking" is basically the act of performing this role.
The Essentials of Tanking:
- Hate - A Tank needs to know how to control "Hate". Generally, a Tank needs to make the enemy "Hate" them more than anyone else in the party. "Hate" is also known as Enmity. Almost every action a character can perform to hurt or hinder the enemy will generate "Hate" Some of these actions include specific job abilities (i.e. Warrior's Provoke Ability), magic spells (i.e. Flash, Stun, Sleep, etc.), Ninjutsu spells (i.e. Jubaku, Kurayami, etc.) hitting the enemy really hard, and so on. A Tank also should know what causes hate loss such as running away and zoning from the area, getting hit hard and often by the enemy, or certain job abilities such as the recently added Thief Job Ability "Accomplice" (steals 50% of target's "Hate"). Understanding how "Hate" works and how to control it is an essential skill of any good tank.
- Damage Mitagation - A Tank wants to minimize how much Damage they take. Not only does minimizing Damage Taken reduce "Hate" loss, but also a dead Tank is a useless Tank (duh). There are two common ways of mitagating damage.
1) "Blood Tanking" is a method of taking hits, but combined with lot of Vitality and High Defense in order to reduce the damage taken. Also, for those jobs that can use and have skill in shield use, they generally also equip a Shield to occasionally block an attack, further reducing the amount of damage they take.
2) "Blink Tanking" is a method of avoiding attacks. Generally, this involves the Ninjutsu spell, Utsusemi. This spell creates a few "shadow copies" of the Tank that almost always absorbs any attack directed at them.
Edited, Jan 7th 2008 3:17pm by BrannonGalvalnor
The Essentials of Tanking:
- Hate - A Tank needs to know how to control "Hate". Generally, a Tank needs to make the enemy "Hate" them more than anyone else in the party. "Hate" is also known as Enmity. Almost every action a character can perform to hurt or hinder the enemy will generate "Hate" Some of these actions include specific job abilities (i.e. Warrior's Provoke Ability), magic spells (i.e. Flash, Stun, Sleep, etc.), Ninjutsu spells (i.e. Jubaku, Kurayami, etc.) hitting the enemy really hard, and so on. A Tank also should know what causes hate loss such as running away and zoning from the area, getting hit hard and often by the enemy, or certain job abilities such as the recently added Thief Job Ability "Accomplice" (steals 50% of target's "Hate"). Understanding how "Hate" works and how to control it is an essential skill of any good tank.
- Damage Mitagation - A Tank wants to minimize how much Damage they take. Not only does minimizing Damage Taken reduce "Hate" loss, but also a dead Tank is a useless Tank (duh). There are two common ways of mitagating damage.
1) "Blood Tanking" is a method of taking hits, but combined with lot of Vitality and High Defense in order to reduce the damage taken. Also, for those jobs that can use and have skill in shield use, they generally also equip a Shield to occasionally block an attack, further reducing the amount of damage they take.
2) "Blink Tanking" is a method of avoiding attacks. Generally, this involves the Ninjutsu spell, Utsusemi. This spell creates a few "shadow copies" of the Tank that almost always absorbs any attack directed at them.
Edited, Jan 7th 2008 3:17pm by BrannonGalvalnor
SoiFon wrote:
Monk can also tank 1-30ish.
I tank on my Monk @ 42, but that's because
A) The party 'tank' sucks OR
B) I have total disregard for hate-management
I'll let you decide.
Hokokaru wrote:
ok im back after my night
I was gonna go to valefor server cuz my friend said he would hook me up with some stuff, but i might choose a different server
also thanks everyone for your help, and if you want keep adding on
I was gonna go to valefor server cuz my friend said he would hook me up with some stuff, but i might choose a different server
also thanks everyone for your help, and if you want keep adding on
If you have friends on a server, I suggest joining the one they're on. FFXI is much better if you have some IRL friends that play alongside you.
32 posts
lol he's not a IRL friend hes just someone on my XBL list that got me interested in the game, he explained the community, fighting style, nations and some other stuff, I dont even know what he is ingame other than he beat all of the San d'oria missions....
I forgot what my other question i was gonna ask today =/
also my game ships today cuz its the first buisness day since i ordered it and its arriving in 4 more days!!
Edited, Jan 7th 2008 3:49pm by Hokokaru
I forgot what my other question i was gonna ask today =/
also my game ships today cuz its the first buisness day since i ordered it and its arriving in 4 more days!!
Edited, Jan 7th 2008 3:49pm by Hokokaru
Quote:
Monk can also tank 1-30ish.
weather they can or not really is inconsequential because they do.
I love my War and even carry two sets of gear.. one for DD and one for tanking.
With War/Mnk tank (I only have it to level 30) I gear up heavy on Vit and Def and still use Gaxe. A tank needs to keep hate and no better way to keep/gain hate with the damage you bring specially a counter with a Gaxe. I dont bother with Axe and shield (unless an SC chain calls for it) and use a combo kamf/eisch setup. With Vit rings and Fish Kabobs/Boiled or steamed Crabs, I'm set as a Tank and moderate DD to boot. I swap in Gear for WS though then switch back to tank gear. Mostly Vit/def vs str/att.
I also have Mnk leveled to 30 and can and have tanked with it but I rely heavily on equip and food to boost my Vit and Def. It's more blood tanking and requires more cures from mages. Have more down time for MP rests... but that is offset from less downtime from being something going wrong and Ninjas getting one-two shotted when they couldnt cast their shadows fast enough. Or PLD's getting linked when they were low in MP and so was WHM. With so much HP and def/vit from gear, I tended to last much longer which may be enough time to finish the mob or live through the emergency. Of course, we'ld all have to rest and heal up HP and MP both.
With War/Mnk tank (I only have it to level 30) I gear up heavy on Vit and Def and still use Gaxe. A tank needs to keep hate and no better way to keep/gain hate with the damage you bring specially a counter with a Gaxe. I dont bother with Axe and shield (unless an SC chain calls for it) and use a combo kamf/eisch setup. With Vit rings and Fish Kabobs/Boiled or steamed Crabs, I'm set as a Tank and moderate DD to boot. I swap in Gear for WS though then switch back to tank gear. Mostly Vit/def vs str/att.
I also have Mnk leveled to 30 and can and have tanked with it but I rely heavily on equip and food to boost my Vit and Def. It's more blood tanking and requires more cures from mages. Have more down time for MP rests... but that is offset from less downtime from being something going wrong and Ninjas getting one-two shotted when they couldnt cast their shadows fast enough. Or PLD's getting linked when they were low in MP and so was WHM. With so much HP and def/vit from gear, I tended to last much longer which may be enough time to finish the mob or live through the emergency. Of course, we'ld all have to rest and heal up HP and MP both.
32 posts
ok i remembered my question!! Are Macros important or can i just play like i did in the old FF games and just wore my good stuff? are they basically shortcuts or do i have to type in the macro each time i need it?
Hokokaru wrote:
ok i remembered my question!! Are Macros important or can i just play like i did in the old FF games and just wore my good stuff? are they basically shortcuts or do i have to type in the macro each time i need it?
Macros are for doing things faster than you could otherwise. You cannot just get one set of gear and wear that 100% of the time for ANY job, it doesn't work. You can get away with it at low levels because of the lack of gear selection, but eventually you will specialize and diversify your gear slots for different situations. WSs and any JAs you use on a regular basis should be macroed.
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
You will eventually find macros very convienent/important. That being said, FFXI is a massive game with a massive learning curve. It is not neccessary to master everything at once. You can wait on making macros until you are more comfortable with the game. But the sooner you master these aspects of the game, the more enjoyable the game will be.
Since you compared this to other FF games, I say that is difficult to do with the exception of FFXII. If you played that game, I'd relate macros to gambits. While it is possible to play all of FFXII without setting up gambits, you are only making the game more difficult in the long run as you now have a lot more work to do every fight (controlling everything manually).
Some of this stuff just has to be picked up while playing. But feel free to ask questions.
Since you compared this to other FF games, I say that is difficult to do with the exception of FFXII. If you played that game, I'd relate macros to gambits. While it is possible to play all of FFXII without setting up gambits, you are only making the game more difficult in the long run as you now have a lot more work to do every fight (controlling everything manually).
Some of this stuff just has to be picked up while playing. But feel free to ask questions.
32 posts
Quote:
You will eventually find macros very convienent/important. That being said, FFXI is a massive game with a massive learning curve. It is not neccessary to master everything at once. You can wait on making macros until you are more comfortable with the game. But the sooner you master these aspects of the game, the more enjoyable the game will be.
Since you compared this to other FF games, I say that is difficult to do with the exception of FFXII. If you played that game, I'd relate macros to gambits. While it is possible to play all of FFXII without setting up gambits, you are only making the game more difficult in the long run as you now have a lot more work to do every fight (controlling everything manually).
Some of this stuff just has to be picked up while playing. But feel free to ask questions.
Since you compared this to other FF games, I say that is difficult to do with the exception of FFXII. If you played that game, I'd relate macros to gambits. While it is possible to play all of FFXII without setting up gambits, you are only making the game more difficult in the long run as you now have a lot more work to do every fight (controlling everything manually).
Some of this stuff just has to be picked up while playing. But feel free to ask questions.
i did play FFVII (beat it), FFVIII (kinda blurry memories but i beat it), and FFIX, FFX and FFX-2(beat all of them and i loved FFX-2 and unlocked everything and got a catnip for all 3 girls for my full 9999's trigger happy as a gunner ^^)
also no one answered my question on how they work yet... do they work like shortcuts from PSU (if you've played it) or do i have to type it in each and every time i need it (if it is then i'd rather use the menu to fight (my finger reflexes are godlike on PSU cuz i only use the on-screen keyboard but everyone thinks im using a regular board cuz i typed really fast =D) so ill try the menus to see if i can do it uber fast too
Edited, Jan 8th 2008 3:33pm by Hokokaru
32 posts
OMG im so exited!! my game shipped yesterday and i thought it was gonna take 4 days but i apparently chose 1st class shipping at only $21 for game+S&H so it came today lol!! antways time to install and meet some people online!!
Quote:
also no one answered my question on how they work yet... do they work like shortcuts from PSU (if you've played it) or do i have to type it in each and every time i need it (if it is then i'd rather use the menu to fight (my finger reflexes are godlike on PSU cuz i only use the on-screen keyboard but everyone thinks im using a regular board cuz i typed really fast =D) so ill try the menus to see if i can do it uber fast too
I haven't played PSU, but the Macros in FFXI are setup as hot-keys or buttons. On a keyboard, you can access the Macro "Set" using Ctrl or Alt combined with the numbers 0-9.
SE recently updated our ability to customize our Macros. We have 20 Macro "Books" with each book consisting of 10 Macro "Sets" with each set consisting of 20 Macro "Buttons." You literally have 4000 Macro Buttons to play with.
Knock yourself out :-)
Possible path:
1-18 BLM
1-37 WHM/BLM
1-75 DRG/WHM
Your polearm will skill up quite nicely as a DRG; no need to gimp yourself as a WAR with a polearm. You may find you quite like chopping at things with a GAxe.
1-18 BLM
1-37 WHM/BLM
1-75 DRG/WHM
Your polearm will skill up quite nicely as a DRG; no need to gimp yourself as a WAR with a polearm. You may find you quite like chopping at things with a GAxe.
Hokokaru wrote:
i loved FFX-2 and unlocked everything and got a catnip for all 3 girls for my full 9999's trigger happy as a gunner ^^
what what what what what what WHAT
Hokokaru wrote:
also no one answered my question on how they work yet... do they work like shortcuts from PSU (if you've played it) or do i have to type it in each and every time i need it (if it is then i'd rather use the menu to fight (my finger reflexes are godlike on PSU cuz i only use the on-screen keyboard but everyone thinks im using a regular board cuz i typed really fast =D) so ill try the menus to see if i can do it uber fast too
Macros consist of 6 lines that you can type any commands you want into. They are assigned to either Alt or Ctrl, and the number 0-9. For example, on Samurai, my Meditate macro is Ctrl+4:
/equip head "Myochin Kabuto"
/ja Meditate <me>
As soon as I meditate with my AF helm on for extra TP gain, I hit my TP macro to equip my normal TP building gear. My Utsusemi macro makes sure to swap in haste to lower the recast timer, so Alt+8 looks like:
/recast "Utsusemi: Ni"
/nin "Utsusemi: Ni" <me>
/equip head "Walahra Turban"
/equip waist "Swift Belt"
/equip hands "Dusk Gloves"
Hitting the macro will execute all lines sequentially.
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
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