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dex and critFollow

#1 Apr 24 2009 at 8:31 PM Rating: Decent
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How does dex affect crit? By this I mean does anyone know how much 1 dex increase crit chance? Also, what else does dex do besides increase acc by 1 every 2 dex?

Edited, Apr 25th 2009 12:35am by alysya
#2 Apr 24 2009 at 8:34 PM Rating: Default
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Pretty sure its so small that it can't even be measured.
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#3 Apr 24 2009 at 8:41 PM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
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By a small amount. The difference between your DEX and the mob's AGI caps at 50, which puts your crit rate at 20%. The low end cap for crit rate is 5%, so going from 0 to 50 dex over agi is a crit+15%, meaning each point adds roughly .3% crit rate. People have parsed that 0->40 gives smaller increases to crit rate, which starts to increase slightly faster at 41->50. The increases from 0->40 and 41->50 are equivalent for each point of DEX you go up by.

Considering you need to TP in upwards of 110-127 DEX just to cap crit rate on merit range mobs, it's not worth what you have to give up (accuracy, attack, and haste) unless the DEX is already on a naturally strong DD piece.



Edited, Apr 24th 2009 11:43pm by bsphil
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#4 Apr 24 2009 at 8:53 PM Rating: Decent
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DEX>>crits only becomes noticeable when it's extremely high--about 36 over the enemy's agility. (capping at 50 over the enemy's agi). Before then it slopes to about 1% crit every 10 dex at the lower end (your DEX near enemy's AGI), 1% crit every 5 dex at 36 over the enemy's agility,

What this means practically is that unless you're at endgame you likely won't have access to enough dex gear to make a significant enough impact on crits, and even then the amount of monsters you can achieve good crit rates on through dex is small (limited to merit mobs).

Information's pretty sparse on crits--it hasn't been thoroughly tested so people don't know the exact formula--but the best overviews are here and here.

Edited, Apr 24th 2009 11:54pm by Eltio
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#5 Apr 24 2009 at 9:17 PM Rating: Excellent
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in other words, don't fulltime Thunder Rings
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#6 Apr 24 2009 at 9:58 PM Rating: Decent
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StubbyStumps wrote:
in other words, don't fulltime Thunder Rings
'

Well essentially, if you're 2 hander its 7.5 Acc from the 10 Dex on 2 thunder rings and you dont receive a darkness -40 hit as well as a -20 defense hits. It kinda depends how you do things I guess.


edit: changed values to reflect 2 thunders vs 2 snipers.

Edited, Apr 25th 2009 1:59am by PyroElf
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#7 Apr 27 2009 at 5:21 PM Rating: Decent
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So what else does dex do? It adds to crit chance by a small amount and also adds to acc, but does it do anything else? Also, I've been wondering exactly what agility does. I've heard it helps ranged attacks but does it do anything else?
#8 Apr 27 2009 at 5:24 PM Rating: Decent
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alysya wrote:
Also, I've been wondering exactly what agility does. I've heard it helps ranged attacks but does it do anything else?
Helps your evasion, and also helps you not get hit with criticals.
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#9 Apr 27 2009 at 5:29 PM Rating: Good
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In general, any stat affects multiple values, but at half or less of a direct augment. Dex + 10 = Accuracy + 5 for example.

The advantages of stat boosting versus direct boosting is normally related traits that are hard to gear for in a particular slot, or to stack them for a specific effect. For example, SAMs stack Strength on weaponskills not because of the + Attack it gives, but because that Strength is converted to damage by the weaponskill used.

Stacking attributes only really applies when doing specific actions (WS, SATA, leveling hard to level skills like Parry and Guard). If you really want to know the full information, you're best bet is to read the wiki articles on stats.
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#10 Apr 27 2009 at 7:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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So, this is something I don't know much about and have been interested in reading... thanks for the posts.

When it comes to critical based weaponskills, are they handled in the same fashion, or is the chance for crit handled separately? I had always wondered if it would be worth it to fire off a cold wave on blu (-35 or more AGI to mob, decays) before a vorpal to maximize crit chances, but never see anyone mention it.
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#11 Apr 27 2009 at 8:16 PM Rating: Decent
According to testing linked off the wiki page on critical hits, hits in critical hit WSs are handled like normal physical hits, with some sort additional chance from current TP, and varying WS to WS.
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#12 Apr 27 2009 at 8:19 PM Rating: Good
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AmanoJ wrote:
I had always wondered if it would be worth it to fire off a cold wave on blu (-35 or more AGI to mob, decays) before a vorpal to maximize crit chances, but never see anyone mention it.

Considering that your target would lose ~18 evasion from the AGI down (that's a whole 9% hit rate for you and everyone hitting the mob!), as well as upping the crit rate a bit? I think you should throw that before any 4-hit crit-based WS, yes.

I don't know about the casting time & MP cost, but in my book, debuffing enemies is often the best thing you can do when you stop thinking about your own epeen/performance and instead care about the party's kill speed.

alysya wrote:
So what else does dex do? It adds to crit chance by a small amount and also adds to acc, but does it do anything else?

Increase sneak attack damage when THF main.
Increase damage for a bunch of WS.

Edited, Apr 28th 2009 12:21am by Lianda
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#13 Apr 27 2009 at 8:35 PM Rating: Good
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I was reading up on agility and crit chance. AmanoJ, it could be worth it to use the agility debuff (as far as crit chance is concerned). It depends on you and your group member's dexterity. Say a mob has 90 base agil, and has 60 agility after the debuff, and you have 110 dexterity. That means you will have a 20% chance to crit(assuming no modifiers but dex to crit %). On the other hand, if the mob has 60 agility after debuff and you have 100 dexterity your chance to crit is something like 10-11%.

You have a 5% base crit chance in melee, and if the mob is not debuffed when you have 100 agility your crit will stay at 5%. On the other hand, if the mob is debuffed then your crit will rise to 10-11%, a 5-6% crit increase.

If the mob is not debuffed and you have 110 dex, then you will have a total of like 6-7% crit chance. When you debuff the mob you will now have a crit chance of 20%, which is a 13-14% crit increase.

As you can see, this debuff could be amazing, but you need some very specific information to use it to its full potential.

The way crit chance increases is something like this.

This table shows numbers of points of your dex over the mobs agility. Not sure if i got it completely right but this is relatively close.

5% base

0-10 | 0%
10-20 | 1%
20-25 | 2%
25-30 | 3%
31-43 | 2% per point in dex increase up to 9%
44-50 | 1% per point in dex increase up to 15%
#14 Apr 28 2009 at 6:59 AM Rating: Decent
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Random note about the base 5% crit thing. I agree with this however, I have noticed, and on more than one occasion when reviewing parses PLD parsing 2-3% crit. I don't know what it is about pld, or if its something of a fluke (although these were hr. plus xp parties) on the relatively small sample sizes I checked.

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#15 Apr 28 2009 at 7:20 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
Considering that your target would lose ~18 evasion from the AGI down (that's a whole 9% hit rate for you and everyone hitting the mob!), as well as upping the crit rate a bit? I think you should throw that before any 4-hit crit-based WS, yes.

I don't know about the casting time & MP cost, but in my book, debuffing enemies is often the best thing you can do when you stop thinking about your own epeen/performance and instead care about the party's kill speed.


I absolutely love debuffs. And trust me when I say that as a blu who solos quite a lot, the benefit of debuffing a mob is most certainly not lost on me. :P

I mostly asked in this case to see if it would ever be worth it before vorpal blade in particular. There are steps you can take beforehand to help yourself out, of course, I had just never seen anyone mention this spell for lowering a mob's AGI in order to help the critical rate. I was curious if it was possible, and how beneficial it could really be.

This spell is not usually very practical, otherwise. It only takes 1 set point, which is nice, but it has no beneficial stat effects (only a negative, INT-1), costs 37mp, takes 4 seconds to use, decays, is AOE magical, and only lasts 30 seconds or so. The frost damage from it IS 18/tic, but that only amounts to around 180 damage.
So, considering something like, say, mandibular bite is only one more mp, .5 sec cast time, 2 set points, single target physical, and GIVES one INT instead of take... it would take some figuring out.
Would the help to crit rate (if there is one) and the potential dmg from the frost effect - and other factors - outweigh the damage gained simply through casting another spell? Seems like so much to consider, really... at least, as far as I can figure. ;)


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