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#52 Jul 02 2009 at 1:10 PM Rating: Decent
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Fynlar wrote:
Also, I highly doubt that 500,000 people have truly experienced an AV fight. That's top-tier endgame and most people can't even touch that, nor do most care.
Aren't you one of those people that say that, while you don't do end game, you're just as qualified to talk about it? Why do they suddenly get eliminated from the equation? They don't count as players?

I'm serious, I want to figure out how someone can be so blindly faithful to a product.
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#53 Jul 02 2009 at 1:19 PM Rating: Decent
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Aren't you one of those people that say that, while you don't do end game, you're just as qualified to talk about it? Why do they suddenly get eliminated from the equation? They don't count as players?


If you do your homework, sure, you can talk about it. I doubt 500k players have truly done their homework regarding AV; most people don't know what has been tried and proven not to work. As far as something like this goes, lack of knowledge indicates lack of experience, even if you actually have dabbled with/gotten killed by AV before.

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I'm serious, I want to figure out how someone can be so blindly faithful to a product.


I don't see what this has to do with faith. All I'm seeing is a mob that has death dialog, actual item drops, and a title, and I'm wondering how people can simply write it off as a "joke mob" that was never meant to be defeated. If it were truly a joke mob designed to be invincible and kill everyone that challenged it, why give it all of those things?

Sounds more to me like people are just being whiny and getting out of the fire because they can't handle the heat, but whatever.
#54 Jul 02 2009 at 1:35 PM Rating: Decent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Fynlar wrote:
Also, I highly doubt that 500,000 people have truly experienced an AV fight. That's top-tier endgame and most people can't even touch that, nor do most care.
Aren't you one of those people that say that, while you don't do end game, you're just as qualified to talk about it? Why do they suddenly get eliminated from the equation? They don't count as players?

I'm serious, I want to figure out how someone can be so blindly faithful to a product.


Because it's simply another peon on the sidelines, that can't do endgame because he or she sucks but will use the excuse (I don't like it) to cover the fact that he or she is terribad. You get it all the time in other MMOs.

Fynlar wrote:
If you do your homework, sure, you can talk about it. I doubt 500k players have truly done their homework regarding AV; most people don't know what has been tried and proven not to work. As far as something like this goes, lack of knowledge indicates lack of experience, even if you actually have dabbled with/gotten killed by AV before.


No, all reading up on a subject says is that you read up on it. Not having participated in the fight regulates you to Mindless Idiot Championing Square-Enix #173,173,273. It gives you diarrhea of the mouth, and that is all it does.

Reading up on something != Being experience in something. There's an incredible difference in there. This applies to everything in life, be it gaming, sports, music, etc.

Fynlar wrote:
Quote:
So what you are saying is that after four years, over five hundred thousand people have been just ... too stupid to figure it out? Is that really your answer? That Square is so brilliant that they've managed to create something that FIVE HUNDRED THOUSAND people haven't figured out in over four years? Please ... please ... tell me where your blind faith is coming from.


There are things in real life that we've known to exist for decades now but even the greatest minds in the world still do not fully understand them or how they work. There are also many things in this game that have managed to remain hidden from the general populace for quite some time until the Word of God spilled the beans, such as the recipe for Goblin Drinks, or that there is a hidden effect on Avengers.

Also, I highly doubt that 500,000 people have truly experienced an AV fight. That's top-tier endgame and most people can't even touch that, nor do most care.


Fynlar wrote:


I don't see what this has to do with faith. All I'm seeing is a mob that has death dialog, actual item drops, and a title, and I'm wondering how people can simply write it off as a "joke mob" that was never meant to be defeated. If it were truly a joke mob designed to be invincible and kill everyone that challenged it, why give it all of those things?

Sounds more to me like people are just being whiny and getting out of the fire because they can't handle the heat, but whatever.


You can't see it because you're an idiot.

And the fact that you try to draw a parallel to real world events with lack of written evidence and historical data (and only conjecture) to a game based exclusively on numbers is incredibly pathetic. Try a real analogy next time and maybe you won't sound so stupid. I seriously doubt it though.

Absolute Virute is a mathematical impossibility. It happens, just like it does in other MMOs, when data from the development team isn't parsed correctly and testing setups aren't tuned around appropriate data. Furthermore, in MMOs, it usually involves tuning fights around gear and/or variables that aren't necessarily available to the players. This becomes the solid line between "impossible" and "virtually impossible"; the inability to understand that stems from lack of intelligence and you seem to lack much.

The difference in other MMOs, however, is that the developers are not sadistic @#%^s that revel in purposely making content tuned in this manner. Square-Enix has done this twice in two separate expansions and attempted to do this three times (Kirin). Your failure to see the problem with Absolute Virute lying in the developers' stigma and not the players' is no fault but your own.

Any other company of developers would be embarrassed to have content that can not legimately be defeated by their playerbase after five years. Square-Enix doesn't because they, like traditional Japanese culture, believe it funny as sh*t to see people attempt to overcome hurdles that they *CAN NOT*.

Edited, Jul 2nd 2009 5:40pm by StrijderVechter
#55 Jul 02 2009 at 1:40 PM Rating: Decent
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Reading up on something != Being experience in something. There's an incredible difference in there. This applies to everything in life, be it gaming, sports, music, etc.


Not having done something yourself does not mean you can't know anything about it. If you disagree, you are wrong. Plain and simple.

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No, all reading up on a subject says is that you read up on it. Not having participated in the fight regulates you to Mindless Idiot Championing Square-Enix #173,173,273. It gives you diarrhea of the mouth, and that is all it does.


Kinda like what you're demonstrating next, right?

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You can't see it because you're an idiot.

And the fact that you try to draw a parallel to real world events with lack of written evidence and historical data (and only conjecture) to a game based exclusively on numbers is incredibly pathetic. Try a real analogy next time and maybe you won't sound so stupid. I seriously doubt it though.

Absolute Virute is a mathematical impossibility. It happens, just like it does in other MMOs, when data from the development team isn't parsed correctly and testing setups aren't tuned around appropriate data. Furthermore, in MMOs, it usually involves tuning fights around gear and/or variables that aren't necessarily available to the players. This becomes the solid line between "impossible" and "virtually impossible"; the inability to understand that stems from lack of intelligence and you seem to lack much.

The difference in other MMOs, however, is that the developers are not sadistic @#%^s that revel in purposely making content tuned in this manner. Square-Enix has done this twice in two separate expansions and attempted to do this three times (Kirin). Your failure to see the problem with Absolute Virute lying in the developers' stigma and not the players' is no fault but your own.

Any other company of developers would be embarrassed to have content that can not legimately be defeated by their playerbase after five years. Square-Enix doesn't because they, like traditional Japanese culture, believe it funny as sh*t to see people attempt to overcome hurdles that they *CAN NOT*.


BAWWWWWWWW is all I got out of that; how about anyone else?

You know, SE might or might not think it's funny to watch people like you struggle and squirm about AV, but after reading posts like these, I have to agree that it is. It is pretty damned funny. XD

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to a game based exclusively on numbers


You're wrong about that BTW. Complex tactics are involved too (unless of course, you're too stupid to think of any), and they do not hinge solely on numbers.

Edited, Jul 2nd 2009 5:42pm by Fynlar
#56 Jul 02 2009 at 1:42 PM Rating: Decent
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Fynlar wrote:
BAWWWWWWWW is all I got out of that; how about anyone else?

You know, SE might or might not think it's funny to watch people like you struggle and squirm about AV, but after reading posts like these, I have to agree that it is. It is pretty damned funny. XD


As usual, an idiot that can't really combat logic and fights with immaturity.

Fynlar wrote:
Quote:
to a game based exclusively on numbers


You're wrong about that BTW. Complex tactics are involved too (unless of course, you're too stupid to think of any), and they do not hinge solely on numbers.


Taking out only a part of a statement to try to make yourself look correct doesn't work. It simply makes your stupidity all the more apparent.

Edited, Jul 2nd 2009 5:42pm by StrijderVechter
#57 Jul 02 2009 at 1:42 PM Rating: Excellent
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Ignoring the previous post, as this is a civil discussion between two apparent factions --

Fynlar wrote:
All I'm seeing is a mob that has death dialog, actual item drops, and a title, and I'm wondering how people can simply write it off as a "joke mob" that was never meant to be defeated.
Easy, its the same people that have done their research and put the theories (no matter how ridiculous) to test and have gotten no further. Four years and countless real, in game tests and no closer? Then you have when it is defeated "in a way Square doesn't approve." They change it. Why? More importantly, why don't they change any other monster in the game? Is Bahamut supposed to be Kraken Zerged? Kirin? Apparently so, since Square didn't change it. Only AV gets changed? Where's the reasoning behind that? What else could it be? I'll even go one step back, to your previous comments: Goblin Drink and Avengers. The playerbase didn't get it, and Square just gave the answer. None of this seems insidious to you?

After all that, you can honestly sit there and say "No, it isn't Square, it is the playerbase at fault for not figuring this out"?
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#58 Jul 02 2009 at 1:49 PM Rating: Decent
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As usual, an idiot that can't really combat logic and fights with immaturity.


You haven't brought any logic or reason into the discussion, smart guy. You're just yet another whiner. Stop pretending you're a special snowflake and go join all the other AV QQers in the corner.

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Taking out only a part of a statement to try to make yourself look correct doesn't work. It simply makes your stupidity all the more apparent.


I don't look correct, I *am* correct. I suppose that's probably why you didn't try to argue against it, instead resorting to the "WAHHHH HE ONLY RESPONDED TO THE LAMEST SOUNDING PART, THE REST OF IT WAS SO MUCH BETTER" card.

But fine, you want me to refute the whole statement instead? I can do that too, because unfortunately for you it was also inherently stupid.

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And the fact that you try to draw a parallel to real world events with lack of written evidence and historical data (and only conjecture) to a game based exclusively on numbers is incredibly pathetic. Try a real analogy next time and maybe you won't sound so stupid. I seriously doubt it though.


Yeah, how dare this game draw any parallels from RL. It's not like it was made by RL people, or played by RL people, or borrows any RL principles or anything, right?

Simply put, your retort falls apart because this ISN'T a game based just on numbers. Which is why I picked that part specifically to respond to. Imagine that!

The AV QQers need to find someone else to argue for them because you don't quite make the cut, buddy.
#59 Jul 02 2009 at 2:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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Fyn, again it's not so much crying over the (debatable) unbeatable mob. It's that it takes months to obtain pop sets for PW. In some cases (like my LS where we don't do sea/sky anymore since most people have what they want), it might take 2~3 months just to get in one night of farming/popping for sea.

If there were a sure fire method on how to beat AV, you can bet that my shell would make it a mandatory event that we do twice a week since his drops really are that good.

But most of us can't even test theories on AV or PW because of the horrendous amount of time and coordination it takes 1) to get the pop items to begin with and 2) to get people online at the same time to take on these super NMs.

In AV's case, most people have just given up and stopped doing sea...which is the exact case with my shell. If you aren't frustrated over the whole AV/PW mess, it's most likely because you haven't put in the time and effort to try to obtain the pop items/set up the event to begin with.
#60 Jul 02 2009 at 2:14 PM Rating: Decent
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Easy, its the same people that have done their research and put the theories (no matter how ridiculous) to test and have gotten no further. Four years and countless real, in game tests and no closer? Then you have when it is defeated "in a way Square doesn't approve." They change it. Why? More importantly, why don't they change any other monster in the game? Is Bahamut supposed to be Kraken Zerged? Kirin? Apparently so, since Square didn't change it. Only AV gets changed? Where's the reasoning behind that? What else could it be? I'll even go one step back, to your previous comments: Goblin Drink and Avengers. The playerbase didn't get it, and Square just gave the answer. None of this seems insidious to you?


1) You make four years sound like a long period of time. Comparatively to other things, when it comes to understanding something enigmatic, it really isn't

2) Methinks the only reason KC zerging hasn't been fully nerfed yet is because they are afraid of the uproar it will cause, not unlike what would happen if they bumped Utsusemi: Ni up to level 38+. Personally, I think it should have been nerfed on everything a long time ago. I also think that Utsu Ni should be bumped up, but I also think the game should also have been balanced to the point where people didn't need to rely on shadows so much to survive things.

3) Despite the above, they do treat AV as one of their grand creations, and they were willing to go back to it and give it Souleater protection unlike things like Bahamut and Kirin. Every time someone has found a way to brute force its HP to zero, it's been patched. You'd think that this alone would tell people that this is a boss they never intended for people to defeat via conventional means. You'd think that that video they released (however useless you may think it is) would also be telling of that. It has all the looks of a Puzzle Boss, and if you were a game designer, I don't think you would be happy if the boss that you designed thinking that it would take some ingenuity to defeat ended up being brute forced to the ground using the same tactics that worked on 99% of the other foes in the game.

4) What's so special about spilling the beans on goblin drinks and avengers? They're relatively minor aspects of the game. Even after learning about Avengers, I still don't think anyone even cares about them. They do know people care about AV, though.


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After all that, you can honestly sit there and say "No, it isn't Square, it is the playerbase at fault for not figuring this out"?


Again, it was meant to be a challenge. If you want to bow out and say it's not worth the EXP loss to figure out, that's your business. That does not mean SE has to easymode their mob just to pander to you.

I think what's ludicrous is people insisting that it's unbeatable simply because they couldn't beat it, when they cannot prove beyond all doubt that it truly is. AV has wiped a lot of the smug looks off the faces of people who presumed they were leet and infallible, and based on a lot of their reactions, it royally pisses them off to know there's something in the game they can't beat. Not only do I think that's exactly what SE wants, that's exactly what I call good entertainment. Honestly, it's good business sense; it keeps some people thinking that they can do better, or get smarter, which keeps them playing.
#61 Jul 02 2009 at 2:30 PM Rating: Decent
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Fyn, again it's not so much crying over the (debatable) unbeatable mob. It's that it takes months to obtain pop sets for PW. In some cases (like my LS where we don't do sea/sky anymore since most people have what they want), it might take 2~3 months just to get in one night of farming/popping for sea.


Oh, were we still talking about PW?

I don't really put him in the same group as AV anymore, because it's pretty clear that PW got his Puzzle Boss status revoked; not only is he conventionally killable now, SE hasn't bothered to nerf the methods of those that have done it.

Yeah, I do think it's crap that the tier 4s don't drop their trophies 100% of the time, especially with a ******** reason like the one they gave. I'm not sure what else you expect me to say on that subject. :x


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If there were a sure fire method on how to beat AV, you can bet that my shell would make it a mandatory event that we do twice a week since his drops really are that good.

But most of us can't even test theories on AV or PW because of the horrendous amount of time and coordination it takes 1) to get the pop items to begin with and 2) to get people online at the same time to take on these super NMs.


I see/hear about AV pops all the time. Seriously, all the time. Not a rare event at all, and I've happened upon groups fighting JoL/wiping to AV on numerous occasions myself when farming Om'aerns. It's not the same as PW, which I've never heard about even once on my server.


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In AV's case, most people have just given up and stopped doing sea...which is the exact case with my shell. If you aren't frustrated over the whole AV/PW mess, it's most likely because you haven't put in the time and effort to try to obtain the pop items/set up the event to begin with.


Sea participation can be flaky; I think the primary reason for this is that it's less overall rewarding compared to other types of endgame. Jailers other than JoL do not drop anything of monetary value unless you have someone mercing your group for a torque, most of the virtue weapons are useless or situational, and even most of the torques are not as fantastic as I feel sea rewards should be (many of which are on par with a PCC/PCA for most jobs)

But really, if AV is your whole inspiration for participating in sea, well... you just might be a *********. I can't stop you. But don't expect me to feel pity for you, either. Again, nobody's forcing you. I doubt inability to defeat AV is the reason most people quit sea. I think there are underlying reasons, such as the one above.

Edited, Jul 2nd 2009 6:31pm by Fynlar
#62 Jul 02 2009 at 2:41 PM Rating: Good
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It's actually the opposite case. I want my LS to do sea because I do have a few items from there that I still do want (and a few others in the shell are the same way). In this case, novio would be wonderful but the chances of me getting that are slim even if I have the DKP since my LS never does sea anymore.

On the other hand, if there were a sure fire way to kill AV (aka: his puzzle was cracked), we'd start killing JoL again because he leads right to AV...which leads right to his drops. It would turn an event that people are tired with and no longer do into something along the lines of what Einherjar is now. A win-win situation for both sides that want drops from other jailers/ix'aern mobs and people who are gunning for AV drops.
#63 Jul 02 2009 at 2:51 PM Rating: Decent
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It's actually the opposite case. I want my LS to do sea because I do have a few items from there that I still do want (and a few others in the shell are the same way). In this case, novio would be wonderful but the chances of me getting that are slim even if I have the DKP since my LS never does sea anymore.

On the other hand, if there were a sure fire way to kill AV (aka: his puzzle was cracked), we'd start killing JoL again because he leads right to AV...which leads right to his drops. It would turn an event that people are tired with and no longer do into something along the lines of what Einherjar is now. A win-win situation for both sides that want drops from other jailers/ix'aern mobs and people who are gunning for AV drops.


I know, I wasn't referring specifically to you with the ********* comment XD

Instead of hoping for that happening (because you'll probably be in for a long wait still), I would instead wish that the rest of the jailers were made more rewarding. Why is it that JoL is the only one with (potential) money drops, for instance? I think all the rest of them should have some neat stuff other than just wepun/virtue/nonexistanttorque, not to mention that I think some of the wepuns/torques could afford to be better than the are.
#64 Jul 02 2009 at 2:59 PM Rating: Good
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Fynlar wrote:
1) You make four years sound like a long period of time. Comparatively to other things, when it comes to understanding something enigmatic, it really isn't
The game is about six years old. Relative to the game's life, yeah, it is a long time. Also, we're talking about a video game here. It should not, EVER take YEARS to defeat ONE monster. As moronic as getting things like Relic weapons is, it is still a working progress. Where is the progress here? Again, are you going to sit there and say, without a shadow of doubt, that it is the PLAYER'S fault here?

Fynlar wrote:
2) Methinks the only reason KC zerging hasn't been fully nerfed yet is because they are afraid of the uproar it will cause,
I'm skipping the Utsu part, because it really is irrelevant and just padding. Okay, going by that line, why wasn't Bahamut given protection a week after it was done so there wouldn't be an uproar? How about Kirin? Why wasn't it nipped when the strategy first started? More importantly: Why does it still work on the ACP boss? Only AV is singled out. Its been months since PW was beaten. If they're both supposed to be ultimate challenges, how come PW hasn't been changed as well?

Fynlar wrote:
3) Despite the above, they do treat AV as one of their grand creations, and they were willing to go back to it and give it Souleater protection unlike things like Bahamut and Kirin.[...]
First, about the video: What do you call something that was replicated in game and resulted in nothing? If I made a video of me throwing a knife at a wall and it sticking, and you mimiced the video exactly, but still never got it to work, wouldn't you say that video was useless as well? I told you, believe it or not, that has been tested. Now, if I were a game designer, I'd say that creating something that takes four years to figure out was bad design. I wouldn't be proud of creating something that pisses off the people who I depend on for my job. Then again, if I were a game designer on a famously named game, I'd also know that no matter what I did and said, there would be people that go out of their way to defend my game. Seriously, if this wasn't Square, or Final Fantasy, would this kind of thing happen?

Fynlar wrote:
4) What's so special about spilling the beans on goblin drinks and avengers? They're relatively minor aspects of the game. Even after learning about Avengers, I still don't think anyone even cares about them. They do know people care about AV, though.
You tell me, you brought them up. What made telling us about the drinks and avengers, relatively minor aspects of the game, important enough to reveal? Why not give a real tip that nudge us in the right direction? No, the video was not a nudge. Like I said, we did that. Exactly.

Fynlar wrote:
Again, it was meant to be a challenge. If you want to bow out and say it's not worth the EXP loss to figure out, that's your business. That does not mean SE has to easymode their mob just to pander to you.
There is a difference between wanting easymode and wanting proof something is possible. We have TONS of testing to show that, so far, it isn't possible. At the other end, all we have a fractured video created by the programmers who are in charge of the game's coding, saying otherwise. Yes, there is text for when AV dies. Yes, there is a drop pool. You know what else is in FFXI? Gear for level 80s. An animation for when you reach Rank 15 in all three nations. By your logic, that stuff proves they are obtainable in game as well.

Fynlar wrote:
I think what's ludicrous is people insisting that it's unbeatable simply because they couldn't beat it, when they cannot prove beyond all doubt that it truly is.
Not nearly as ludicrous as people who insist the playerbase is just too dumb and refuse to come up with their own strategies to help to prove that it is beatable. We have done the tests, we have eaten more dirt than an earthworm. You read some text, and offered no theories of your own ...

You know what -- That's exactly what I'm going to ask of you. Like I said, my side has a relatively long history of theories and tests on the subject. You're welcome to deny that to dodge this last question I'm asking of you, but that'll just end this civil conversation, as it'll be you admitting you really are just blindly defending the company. Here: You come up with an untested, and feasible theory, to defeat Absolute Virtue. I'm not asking you to go out and do it, I'm just asking for some theories that haven't been tried yet. Instead of just defending, try proving what you're defending.

We can already throw out the text and drop table: There are a ton of things in the .dats that aren't obtainable in game.

Fynlar wrote:
Honestly, it's good business sense;
Pissing off your customers is not good business sense. Square is just lucky that a huge majority of their customer base (Angrily I admit myself into this category) is blindly faithful to the brand name.

Edited, Jul 2nd 2009 7:02pm by lolgaxe
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#65 Jul 02 2009 at 4:24 PM Rating: Decent
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The game is about six years old. Relative to the game's life, yeah, it is a long time. Also, we're talking about a video game here. It should not, EVER take YEARS to defeat ONE monster. As moronic as getting things like Relic weapons is, it is still a working progress. Where is the progress here? Again, are you going to sit there and say, without a shadow of doubt, that it is the PLAYER'S fault here?


Progress here comes in the form of finding things that don't work. As the adage goes, once you rule out the impossible, whatever's left has to be the truth. Sure, it's a long winding road, and many of you probably think that you'd have to be stupid to try to travel it. The obvious solution? Don't travel it. Just don't go trying to claim the glory for yourself the day that someone else finally figures it out.

As for you saying it shouldn't take years to figure out a mob, well... that is what we call an opinion. Everyone has one, yadda yadda etc


Quote:
I'm skipping the Utsu part, because it really is irrelevant and just padding. Okay, going by that line, why wasn't Bahamut given protection a week after it was done so there wouldn't be an uproar? How about Kirin? Why wasn't it nipped when the strategy first started? More importantly: Why does it still work on the ACP boss? Only AV is singled out. Its been months since PW was beaten. If they're both supposed to be ultimate challenges, how come PW hasn't been changed as well?


Because even if you did make Souleater not work on Bahamut/Kirin, they can still be zerged down fast even without it because they lack the ability to kill your frontline in the blink of an eye or restore itself with infinite Benedictions. That, or SE just doesn't care so much about those guys. Take your pick. I still think it's embarrassing for Bahamut to be taken down in 30 seconds no matter what the method, but whatever.

And I thought the Seed Crystal did resist Souleater?

After the whole PW "whoamg 16 hours" uproar or whatever it was, they felt they needed to strip its Puzzle Boss status to avoid any more bad publicity, most likely.


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First, about the video: What do you call something that was replicated in game and resulted in nothing?


The video time warped all over the place and clearly didn't show the entire fight. How exactly do you replicate something like that perfectly?


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Seriously, if this wasn't Square, or Final Fantasy, would this kind of thing happen?


Well, yes, considering that this is far from being the only game with a challenge boss that people have difficulty with. I'm pretty sure even WoW has had some similar boss, but don't quote me on that.


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You tell me, you brought them up. What made telling us about the drinks and avengers, relatively minor aspects of the game, important enough to reveal? Why not give a real tip that nudge us in the right direction? No, the video was not a nudge. Like I said, we did that. Exactly.


Because they are trivial. It's clear that SE likes to keep us guessing on as much stuff as they possibly can, and AV is pretty much their culmination on that. Also, no, you didn't copy the video exactly. Nobody can do that because the video timewarps and leaves too many gaps.


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There is a difference between wanting easymode and wanting proof something is possible. We have TONS of testing to show that, so far, it isn't possible.


You cannot prove something like that. You can only say that what you've tried so far hasn't worked, which is not the same thing.


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At the other end, all we have a fractured video created by the programmers who are in charge of the game's coding, saying otherwise.


Uh huh, and you believe that they would have gone through the trouble to make that if it was a joke mob and wasn't supposed to be beatable at all? That's something I could see a company like Blizzard doing for the lulz, but not SE.

People writing off the video as "fake" to me are just conspiracy theorists. Call it vague if you wish, because it certainly is.


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Yes, there is text for when AV dies. Yes, there is a drop pool. You know what else is in FFXI? Gear for level 80s. An animation for when you reach Rank 15 in all three nations. By your logic, that stuff proves they are obtainable in game as well.


The means for obtaining any of those things are (to our knowledge) not in the game. AV is in the game, he has been beaten (even though he was patched), I know people with the title and the drops. Just because you aren't good enough to figure out how to win does not mean they are as nonexistant as level 80 and rank 15.


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Not nearly as ludicrous as people who insist the playerbase is just too dumb and refuse to come up with their own strategies to help to prove that it is beatable. We have done the tests, we have eaten more dirt than an earthworm. You read some text, and offered no theories of your own ...


Mainly because my whole point here is

1) I don't care about beating AV
2) I believe that making beating AV your (apparent) life goal is pretty pathetic

I'm not really calling people "dumb" for not being able to figure AV out, because it IS quite an enigma. I'm calling them dumb for blaming SE for their apparent inability to do it. It's meant to be a challenge, period. Don't be ashamed to admit that YOU weren't good enough to figure it out, that's all I'm saying. It's not like you won't be in good company.


Quote:
We can already throw out the text and drop table: There are a ton of things in the .dats that aren't obtainable in game.


They are only unobtainable because they are not on the drop tables of any existing mob. Not quite the same thing.


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Here: You come up with an untested, and feasible theory, to defeat Absolute Virtue.


If I cared about being an AV "pioneer", maybe I would. Only I don't. All I care about is putting "WAHHH I'M NOT GOOD ENOUGH THEREFORE SE SUCKS" whiners in their place.


Quote:
Pissing off your customers is not good business sense.


Keeping them playing is good business sense, period. Their "feelings" are honestly rather irrelevant to them. We see people complain about things like NM drop rates all the time, but how often do you see them quit over it? Most of them continue to camp the thing like sheep until they get their precious NM drop.
#66 Jul 02 2009 at 4:42 PM Rating: Good
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Fynlar wrote:
Quote:
Here: You come up with an untested, and feasible theory, to defeat Absolute Virtue.
If I cared about being an AV "pioneer", maybe I would. Only I don't. All I care about is putting "WAHHH I'M NOT GOOD ENOUGH THEREFORE SE SUCKS" whiners in their place.
You'll never "put them in their place" unless you come up with something of your own to prove your theory.
____________________________
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#67 Jul 02 2009 at 4:47 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
You'll never "put them in their place" unless you come up with something of your own to prove your theory.


Wouldn't be the first time people prefer to stay in their own little world where only they are right, everyone else is wrong, and anything they can't do is always someone else's fault.
#68 Jul 02 2009 at 4:54 PM Rating: Good
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Fynlar wrote:
Quote:
You'll never "put them in their place" unless you come up with something of your own to prove your theory.


Wouldn't be the first time people prefer to stay in their own little world where only they are right, everyone else is wrong, and anything they can't do is always someone else's fault.
When you're ready to come out, we'll have another civilized conversation. Enjoy your Altar of Square, though. I wish I could just pretend the **** they put its playerbase through didn't exist, too.
____________________________
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#69 Jul 02 2009 at 5:11 PM Rating: Default
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Quote:
When you're ready to come out, we'll have another civilized conversation. Enjoy your Altar of Square, though. I wish I could just pretend the sh*t they put its playerbase through didn't exist, too.


I find it funny that you're calling me a fanboy even though that's something I always accused Theonehio of.

SE has their horse **** tactics and if you've seen me on the feedback forum you'll notice that I fully recognize this and call them out on it, but this isn't one of them, sorry. I'll keep saying this -- AV is supposed to be a challenge, that super special awesome optional postgame boss if you will. He is supposed to be hard, he's supposed to be a *******, he's supposed to not play fair. The fact that you cannot figure out how to beat X boss in a video game does not mean that the developers are in the wrong.

If you aren't up to the task, you man up to it. SE is not forcing you to slog through it and its inevitable massive EXP loss. Either you care enough to keep trying to win, or you don't. Simple as that.
#70 Jul 03 2009 at 12:27 AM Rating: Default
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I can't believe that there are still people who believe that there's a trick to killing AV. After throwing myself at that thing God knows how many times, trying God knows how many tactics and theories, I have come to the conclusion that there is no way to defeat it.

It's all in the video, it's all in the video. There is nothing in the video. I, personally, have performed those same exact actions. He still ran me over. Nothing happened.

You say in one breath that the video's not useless, and in the next that it's impossible to replicate the actions because of the timeskips. Which is it?

Years of theories and tests, and I don't mean just normal tests, I mean stupid tests. I have witnessed some of the most ridiculous tests known to mankind. We are still no closer to beating him than we ever were.

We finally figure out a way to do it, and they update him immediately. Why? Because we're not doing what they want us to do.

When it comes to AV, SE will be childish, petty, and absurd. They will protect the secret forever, until the day the servers go down, when people will tear the code apart and find out what it was, only to find out it was sucking Sundi off while you play.
#71 Jul 03 2009 at 12:33 AM Rating: Good
Some groups have gotten AV to <50% very recently. They say the trick is in the video. They're having trouble with the bracelets version right now, which is why it hasn't been killed yet. There's progress either way.

Maybe you just didn't try hard enough?
#72 Jul 03 2009 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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684 posts
Yeah, it's no longer the 2hrs that is preventing them from killing AV, just the meteor spam. I saw a recent screen shot of Apathy (I think that's who it was anyways) fighting AV and having it under 50%. They claim to have gotten it as low as 43-45%.
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