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It takes 26,000 hours to fully upgrade a Mythic weaponFollow

#1 Dec 25 2011 at 4:12 AM Rating: Good
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Read this from another board, but reposting it here

Quote:
So, sitting here, alone, on Christmas Eve, my thoughts turn towards the topic of wasted time and life. Naturally, MMORPGs figure prominently in this thinking. So I was wondering, what is the biggest single time sink in all of MMORPGs? What one achievement to unlock, item to earn, stat to max out, or storyline to clear takes the most time out of the whole time wasting field, either in total playtime or real-life days from start to finish, assuming no dawdling? I'll lead off with my candidate, from the MMO I am most familiar with: Final Fantasy XI.

The first nominee, for the "total playtime" category, is completing the Trial of the Magians necessary to upgrade a mythic weapon from its level 95 version to its level 99 version. For this trial, the Magian Moogles, pretentious little kupo-ing floating twerps that they are, want 500 Mulcibar's Scoria. These things, which look like ordinary rocks, drop one at a time from a boss called Pandemonium Warden. Does this name sound familiar to you? He should. He's the infamous superboss that got Final Fantasy XI its greatest media attention in years when a group of hardcore players put in 18 continuous hours trying to beat him once and quit when they were too physically exhausted to continue. Square-Enix was sufficiently stung by the negative media from this to remove a number of his alternate forms, lower his hit points by quite a lot, and add a two hour timer to change the nature of the challenge from a marathon to a sprint. Furthermore, the level cap has been raised from 75 to 99 since PW was first put in (although this is less impressive than it sounds, as raw stat gains slowed down considerably past 75; the main benefit is having the "level correction" functions work for you instead of against you).

Anyway, so 500 fights x 2 hours per fight = 1000 hours, so it still sounds like a lot of work, right? Well, actually, that's the least of it. You see, you can't just waltz up to ole' Pandy and challenge him anytime you want, you have to trade a "Pandemonium Key" first. How do you get the key? You need to kill three lesser bosses for a trio of items to trade an NPC for it. These bosses in turn require special pop items of their own to spawn, which require yet more bosses to be spawned and killed and trades to be made, and so on. It turns out that you also need to kill a total of 12 of these sub-bosses for each and every single time you fight the Warden. You'll also need to run back and forth between the town where the item trading NPC is and the middle of nowhere where the bosses are fought every time. Sound bad? No, two paragraphs and several thousand hours in and we haven't got to the bad part yet.

Here it is: you know that NPC that I mentioned that you need to trade items with? Well, he won't do it for free. This isn't a charity, sonny. And don't think you can weasel out of it by coughing up ordinary currency either; this guy wants his own very special form of currency called "zeni". How do you get "zeni"? Well, this same old geezer will give it to you in exchange for pictures of monsters, which you must go out and take with a special disposable camera (that in turn needs its own special currency to purchase, but never mind that; it's actually the least troublesome part of the whole thing). Now, you can only turn in ten pictures per game day, which is a little shorter than a real-world hour. So, we find the maximum amount of zeni we can reasonably expect to get per picture and multiply by ten to get our basic hourly zeni earning rate. We then tote up the base zeni costs (they increase from the base cost based on demand, by the way, so this method will actually lowball our time expenses somewhat) for our twelve bosses (don't forget to add the cost of the salt you need to teleport to the tier 4 boss battlefields!), add the cost for the Pandemonium Key, multiply by 500, and divide the total by the hourly zeni rate to get our estimate of our zeni farming time in hours. And that time is (drum roll please)...

Twenty. Six. Thousand. Hours.

This is not a typo. This is also not a readily comprehensible figure. Let's start by figuring how many hours there are in a year, 365 days per year times 24 hours per day = 8670 hours. 26000 hours is just a hair under three years. That's three years of doing nothing but taking pictures--24 hours a day, with no sleep, eating at your keyboard and defecating in your chair. (I hope you installed your PC in your bathroom.) Ok, so doing it in a "mere" three years isn't practical, or even human for that matter. Let's try treating this like a job. How many hours do people work in a year? Well, this game was made by Japanese people, so let's see what they would consider a reasonable work-year in hours. According to the book The Emptiness of Japanese Affluence, the highest estimate of the work year for the average Japanese male (and the FFXI dev team management are all men) is 2617 hours. Meaning that treating this like a job where you are a workaholic will get it done in about a decade. (Note that this is as much time as the game has been open to the public since its launch.)

Now, what else could you do with all that time?

According to Malcolm Gladwell's book Outliers, the key to success in any field is practicing a specific task for 10000 hours. (Note that this is just a fraction of the time you'll spend on this trial.) He specifically mentions that the members of The Beatles spent that long playing in Germany before returning to England. (So by the time you're done, you'll be the FFXI equivalent of half of The Beatles, with time left over for Yoko Ono to boot.) 10000 hours is more than enough to get a degree. 10000 hours, if worked at a paying job, will earn you enough money to buy a brand new car, or make a down payment on a house--or you could move to one of the cheaper parts of the country, and buy the whole thing with one lump sum payment and no mortgage necessary (be sure to give the banking system the finger for me). So if you are insane enough to undertake this senseless trial, you will spend the equivalent time of multiple brand new cars, or houses, or college degrees.

So, how will putting in 26000+ hours of grinding work in an MMO compare to putting in the same amount of time in something more practical? Not very well, obviously, but it's worse than you think. You see, this isn't even the time to earn one item; no, this is the time needed to earn one UPGRADE to one item. To earn the ultimate form of a mythic weapon, one has to complete multiple trials of greatly varying difficulty (you will be relieved if confused to note that other than this one, all the trials are trivial and could be done in a weekend). But to even start the trials you must first earn the base form of the weapon, which prior to this was the worst time sink in the entire game (it took months of grinding plus hundreds of millions of gil worth of items). Not only that, but of the three types of ultimate weapons the game unnecessarily has (but that's a whole other rant), mythic weapons are the lousiest type. As for whether this will be true once the trial is completed, well, no one knows at this point because no one has seen the stats on the final weapon yet let alone got to run any detailed comparisons. But hey, we know that after all this, it finally glows, and that's pretty cool, right?

As long as I am going on at length about the final mythic weapon magian trial, I might as well include the reaction of the playerbase to it. There are a tiny handful of people claiming that it will "separate those who worked for their weapons from those who got them handed to them", and similar nonsense. At least one of those is a poster generally supposed to be posting for no other reason than trolling; as for the other two, I have learned from my work on the 2000 U.S. Census that if you encounter enough people, at least a few of them are bound to be crazy. The reaction of the rest of the playerbase mostly resembles the Kübler-Ross model of the Five Stages of Grief: Denial ("it's just a placeholder number that they put on test server, the real number will be more reasonable", Anger ("They're crazy! Tanaka should be fired!"), Bargaining ("Ok, five PW kills would be fine. Maybe ten?"), Depression ("It's 2005 all over again. They're ruining the whole game..."), and finally, Acceptance ("I quit. See you guys on WoW!")

So that's my nomination for "Worst Single MMO Time Sink". What's yours? Surely some Korean grinder MMO out there can top this! Come on South Korea, we're counting on you! You can beat the hated Japanese, we know it!


So, is this about accurate?
#2 Dec 25 2011 at 4:17 AM Rating: Good
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Correct me if I'm wrong but nowhere has SE stated what the final number of Scoria's thingies will be required to complete 99 mythic. Also we don't know if they'll drop off other NMs, such as salvage bosses. All there has been so far is a lot of premature whining because the test server states an inordinate number are required for the trial.

This about right?
#3REDACTED, Posted: Dec 25 2011 at 4:51 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Theres a lot of "U MAD BRO" going on with that poster.
#4 Dec 25 2011 at 5:23 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jimie wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but nowhere has SE stated what the final number of Scoria's thingies will be required to complete 99 mythic. Also we don't know if they'll drop off other NMs, such as salvage bosses. All there has been so far is a lot of premature whining because the test server states an inordinate number are required for the trial.

This about right?



Quote:
The reaction of the rest of the playerbase mostly resembles the Kübler-Ross model of the Five Stages of Grief: Denial ("it's just a placeholder number that they put on test server, the real number will be more reasonable", Anger ("They're crazy! Tanaka should be fired!"), Bargaining ("Ok, five PW kills would be fine. Maybe ten?"), Depression ("It's 2005 all over again. They're ruining the whole game..."), and finally, Acceptance ("I quit. See you guys on WoW!")


Bolded that part there.

No it's no more a placeholder then getting 30,000 alexandrite is or 1500 HMP's or 1000 ADL's. SE seriously thought 500 PW kills would be a good idea, without actually looking at the effort to get the full pop set for ~ONE~ PW. 500 kills is too much, its for just one person, if there are multiple mythic holders then multiply that accordingly. The zeni system needs reworked completely, throw away the pictures and let us use ISP instead of zeni. That would fix lots of issues easily.
#5 Dec 25 2011 at 6:45 AM Rating: Good
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ogrebattle wrote:
ogrebattle wrote:
Anyway, so 500 fights x 2 hours per fight = 1000 hours

So, is this about accurate?

That particular computation assumes that every fight will take the maximum allowed time. But only the zeni picture-taking time was used in the final number, so it doesn't matter much.

Also "it's just a placeholder number that they put on test server, the real number will be more reasonable" is in fact NOT an invalid assumption worthy of cries of "DENIAL!". It is the test server. The test server is for testing game mechanics to make sure that stuff works, not for setting quantities required for trials. I had heard that the level 99 limit break fight would only take place at a single BCNM area, because of people reporting about how it worked on the test server. Ditto for the possibility of something else dropping it.

Still, absurd trial is absurd. And the Zeni system is clearly a stupid choice for requiring spamming an NM for trial drops. From the math presented, that's a minimum of 52 hours of Pokemon Snap for just one PW pop.

And that doesn't even go into the crap you have to do to just get a mythic in the first place. I'd love to just get all the assault missions done once, and I understand that you have to do them all over again for each (as if you could hope to finish more than one) mythic. Dynamis changes have made relics a lot more reachable, but SE basically hasn't touched the base mythic weapon process at all yet.
#6 Dec 25 2011 at 7:20 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elwynbelwyn wrote:
ogrebattle wrote:
ogrebattle wrote:
Anyway, so 500 fights x 2 hours per fight = 1000 hours

So, is this about accurate?

That particular computation assumes that every fight will take the maximum allowed time. But only the zeni picture-taking time was used in the final number, so it doesn't matter much.

Also "it's just a placeholder number that they put on test server, the real number will be more reasonable" is in fact NOT an invalid assumption worthy of cries of "DENIAL!". It is the test server. The test server is for testing game mechanics to make sure that stuff works, not for setting quantities required for trials. I had heard that the level 99 limit break fight would only take place at a single BCNM area, because of people reporting about how it worked on the test server. Ditto for the possibility of something else dropping it.

Still, absurd trial is absurd. And the Zeni system is clearly a stupid choice for requiring spamming an NM for trial drops. From the math presented, that's a minimum of 52 hours of Pokemon Snap for just one PW pop.

And that doesn't even go into the crap you have to do to just get a mythic in the first place. I'd love to just get all the assault missions done once, and I understand that you have to do them all over again for each (as if you could hope to finish more than one) mythic. Dynamis changes have made relics a lot more reachable, but SE basically hasn't touched the base mythic weapon process at all yet.



Hmm you might not of participated in the whole LB10 testing. Guess what, their original plans were for ONE BC area, it was due to the feedback from SE's unpaid beta testers (aka test server peoples) that they decided to add multiple BC fights along with the rarab tail item.

And so far, every trial on the test server has come to pass on the production servers. Sometimes the items aren't available in the .dats, but the quantity from the quest message has always been the same. At no point in time have we seen them change that value. We ~thought~ the 1500 HMP's were just a place holder since all the emps had the same entry, and we were wrong, so very wrong. Now we see the exact same scenario happening again, and instead of waiting like faithful sheep for SE to drop the bomb on us, we're giving them massive negative feedback on such a scale that they can't possible not notice it.

Edited, Dec 25th 2011 10:13pm by saevellakshmi
#7 Dec 25 2011 at 8:07 AM Rating: Excellent
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This is why I believe they don't play their own game or fully comprehend just what the **** they are coding. "hmm 500 PW kills ain't so bad at 99" only if you revamp the system where it won't take anywhere near the amount of work it would right now. How you can justify this thought process all the while being anti relic/mythic/emp working in off hand is beyond my capability to comprehend. It's ******* retarded. It's the most insulting thing I've ever seen. And I'm not even fricking saYING THIS AS A MYTHIC HOLDER AND NEVER WILL BE A MYTHIC HOLDER!

25 PW kills. 25 is fricking INSANE. How they came up with 500 kills is ******* impossible to comprehend. 25 is already an ridiculously stupid requirement(I'm coming up with the 25 figure btw which is overdoing it SE style for a lv99 trial) There isn't even words that exist that can describe 500. I pray not a single one of the 550ish mythic holders will ever waste their lives on this **** but alas I know someone somewhere has enough of a no life that they will want it so they can be proud of something good in their lives.

Ultimately I'll wait and see. Right now I fully expect things to change but if they don't it will only serve to enlighten us of the truth: Aliens work at SE. Because on Krypton this **** here might be acceptable.
#8 Dec 25 2011 at 8:10 AM Rating: Excellent
What'll happen is, eventually people will start selling Pandy pops for gil. And then idiots will start buying them. And then the most vocal of the idiots will post on the official forums suggesting that "it's not that bad, quit QQ", and SE will use this tiny miniscule vocal minority to validate their decision and ignore the rest of the playerbase.


This has happened with every major change in the last 6 months. Anyone who suspects otherwise is stupid and has unwarranted blind faith in SE.

Edited, Dec 25th 2011 8:11am by BrownDuck
#9 Dec 25 2011 at 8:11 AM Rating: Decent
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saevellakshmi wrote:
Jimie wrote:
Correct me if I'm wrong but nowhere has SE stated what the final number of Scoria's thingies will be required to complete 99 mythic. Also we don't know if they'll drop off other NMs, such as salvage bosses. All there has been so far is a lot of premature whining because the test server states an inordinate number are required for the trial.

This about right?



Quote:
The reaction of the rest of the playerbase mostly resembles the Kübler-Ross model of the Five Stages of Grief: Denial ("it's just a placeholder number that they put on test server, the real number will be more reasonable", Anger ("They're crazy! Tanaka should be fired!"), Bargaining ("Ok, five PW kills would be fine. Maybe ten?"), Depression ("It's 2005 all over again. They're ruining the whole game..."), and finally, Acceptance ("I quit. See you guys on WoW!")


Bolded that part there.

No it's no more a placeholder then getting 30,000 alexandrite is or 1500 HMP's or 1000 ADL's. SE seriously thought 500 PW kills would be a good idea, without actually looking at the effort to get the full pop set for ~ONE~ PW. 500 kills is too much, its for just one person, if there are multiple mythic holders then multiply that accordingly. The zeni system needs reworked completely, throw away the pictures and let us use ISP instead of zeni. That would fix lots of issues easily.


That's a very nice use of the grief model applied to this process. However, as SE stated in their update notes:

SE wrote:
*New Magian trials for Relic, Mythic, and Empyrean weapons have been delayed to allow time for proper balancing.
They are scheduled to be introduced to the test server in the near future and implemented in the release version in an additional version update.
The items required for the trials, however, have been introduced in advance in this version update.


Wonder what that proper balancing could be....? Could it be balancing making Pandemonium Warden sets much easier to obtain? Balancing the number of items required? Balancing how the items can be obtained?

Everyone's just getting a bit too carried away, and as someone else in this thread commented, the value required is on the test server. It may well be that come update day I'll be eating my words. I pray to God I'm not because 500 PW kills is excessive by, I hope, anyone's, including SE's, rationing.
#10 Dec 25 2011 at 8:31 AM Rating: Good
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saevellakshmi wrote:
SE seriously thought 500 PW kills would be a good idea, without actually looking at the effort to get the full pop set for ~ONE~ PW.
Or, maybe they know exactly how much effort is required, and put the current requirements in place for just that reason.

Remember the sort people we're talking about here: they prize balance, and define it in the most conservative sense, which for them, often translates to "keep sh*t straight with lots of restrictions." They absolutely prize their endgame weapons, and in the past have indicated they think these things should be particularly exclusive, and as such, not remotely available to larger population.

I wouldn't attribute the requirements to malice, but I don't think mere ignorance is at play, either.


Edited, Dec 25th 2011 6:32am by SunriderRagnarok
#11 Dec 25 2011 at 8:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
What'll happen is, eventually people will start selling Pandy pops for gil. And then idiots will start buying them. And then the most vocal of the idiots will post on the official forums suggesting that "it's not that bad, quit QQ", and SE will use this tiny miniscule vocal minority to validate their decision and ignore the rest of the playerbase.


Tanaka and crew are honestly just completely out of touch, whats the point of opening relics to the masses and then making an extreme trial that a tiny % of the target audience will do. The idea is to give all relic holders (or most of them) content to do, it defeats the entire purpose of making content if almost nobody does it due to it being too extreme.

If they don't change this trial to be at most 10 DL kills and 5 PW kills (kills! not any drop items) then they are completely out of their minds and this game will be dead within the next 6 months. VW/WoE is already showing how stupid they are, not to mention that dumbass interview they gave not long ago.

There was a lot of hope after Aby but now they are just right back to crap, unbelievable company. I will never touch another SE online game if they push me to quit XI carrying on like this, they just never ever change.
#12 Dec 25 2011 at 9:27 AM Rating: Good
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its a good thing he didn't include how long it takes to get unlock the damn weapons in the first place. **** you probably looking at 50K+ hours to start from base weapon > 99 Mythic.
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#13 Dec 25 2011 at 11:59 AM Rating: Good
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I know Yoko Ono and you sir... are no Yoko Ono.
#14 Dec 25 2011 at 12:25 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, he kinda didn't point out the important part, which is getting a mythic to begin with.

Frankly, 'only' having a 95 mythic rather than a 99 mythic would hardly be anything to cry about.
#15 Dec 25 2011 at 2:40 PM Rating: Excellent
BrownDuck wrote:
What'll happen is, eventually people will start selling Pandy pops for gil. And then idiots will start buying them. And then the most vocal of the idiots will post on the official forums suggesting that "it's not that bad, quit QQ", and SE will use this tiny miniscule vocal minority to validate their decision and ignore the rest of the playerbase.


This has happened with every major change in the last 6 months. Anyone who suspects otherwise is stupid and has unwarranted blind faith in SE.

Edited, Dec 25th 2011 8:11am by BrownDuck


People have actually sold spots in PW alliance for 1mil each on my server recently.
I am not a 100% on the lotting rules but I think you got a chance to lot on the spoils afterwards.
That sounds slightly more efficient then actually selling off the pop item.

#16 Dec 25 2011 at 4:21 PM Rating: Excellent
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SunriderRagnarok wrote:
saevellakshmi wrote:
SE seriously thought 500 PW kills would be a good idea, without actually looking at the effort to get the full pop set for ~ONE~ PW.
Or, maybe they know exactly how much effort is required, and put the current requirements in place for just that reason.

Remember the sort people we're talking about here: they prize balance, and define it in the most conservative sense, which for them, often translates to "keep sh*t straight with lots of restrictions." They absolutely prize their endgame weapons, and in the past have indicated they think these things should be particularly exclusive, and as such, not remotely available to larger population.

I wouldn't attribute the requirements to malice, but I don't think mere ignorance is at play, either.


Edited, Dec 25th 2011 6:32am by SunriderRagnarok


As currently implemented, it won't be possible for any person to get their own 99 mythic period. 26K hours just to farm up the zeny is ... wow. You could split it amongst multiple members, but then your asking other people to spend an entire year of their entire game time, just to get you your 99 upgrade. That's not gonna fly, so ultimately your talking mercing the items which are tradeable. And guess what the price is going to be? I'm looking at 5~10mil each once it gets implemented. A merc shell could put in the time to farm up a bunch of zeni pop sets on mules and what not then do him a dozen times and merc out the drops for shell wide gil split. So now we're factoring in farming time, which would cut down the time from 10 years.
#17 Dec 25 2011 at 4:27 PM Rating: Good
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SunriderRagnarok wrote:
saevellakshmi wrote:
SE seriously thought 500 PW kills would be a good idea, without actually looking at the effort to get the full pop set for ~ONE~ PW.
Or, maybe they know exactly how much effort is required, and put the current requirements in place for just that reason.

Remember the sort people we're talking about here: they prize balance, and define it in the most conservative sense, which for them, often translates to "keep sh*t straight with lots of restrictions." They absolutely prize their endgame weapons, and in the past have indicated they think these things should be particularly exclusive, and as such, not remotely available to larger population.

I wouldn't attribute the requirements to malice, but I don't think mere ignorance is at play, either.


Edited, Dec 25th 2011 6:32am by SunriderRagnarok




It was said in another post but if the player base hadn't had such a reaction they very well had just passed it along. We went along with the 1500 HMP because it was either a place holder, or if it was the real number they might have drop close to the level of currancy so it wouldn't be that bad.

The whole BS of a 95 relic/mystic holder should be happy is just that. Why wouldn't you want as many people as you could get to jump on the tread mill(for content that already blocks people). There shouldn't be this all or nothing crap I hear the white knighting morons spit out to defend SE.

If its not SE doing it just to stroke thier own egos then they must think that each Mystic holder will have 17 people farming Zeni for them and giving them their PW pop sets. While you might be able to get people to help you fight the NMs need to get to a PW pop set in exchange for you helping them kill they will not be so eager to hand over a piece of work they could sell for mils of gil. Its adding in gil into already gil heavy content.



Edited, Dec 26th 2011 3:22am by RavennofTitan
#18 Dec 25 2011 at 5:14 PM Rating: Excellent
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RavennofTitan wrote:
If its not ES doing it just to stroke thier own egos then they must think that each Mystic holder will have 17 people farming Zeni for them and giving them their PW pop sets. While you might be able to get people to help you fight the NMs need to get to a PW pop set in exchange for you helping them kill they will not be so eager to hand over a piece of work they could sell for mils of gil. Its adding in gil into already gil heavy content.
Anybody who seriously thinks that they will have 17 faithful drones happily farming up 500 PW sets for them is as crazy as Tanaka. It won't take very many kills for everyone to have everything that they want from any of the 13 ZNMs, considering that this is old content (so many people will have the gear already) and the items are outleveled and underpowered. Soon enough, people will be mysteriously "sick" or have "important business" come up or just jump LS to get away from it. FFXI is not North Korea, you cannot have people shot for failing to slave away for peanuts for the glory of the Dear Leader. These guys will be left with 15/500 scoria turned in, an empty shell, and their big fat squealing egos, but the damage to the game will have been done.
#19 Dec 25 2011 at 5:26 PM Rating: Default
Didn't they add PW key to the daily tally?
#20 Dec 25 2011 at 5:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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The alternative is they understand perfectly the task they're asking us to do, and to them 500 Pandy kills is an acceptably legitimate requirement for a game.

Edited, Dec 25th 2011 4:56pm by jlejeune
#21 Dec 25 2011 at 7:39 PM Rating: Excellent
The person responsible for the new content is the same person who came up with original relic weapon requirements; the same person who thought of the original Dynamis and relic armour; the same person behind all these Salvage-like drop rates, and endless trials that require a group of people to work towards completing ONE person's goal, for months and YEARS on end.

Everything just has the same feeling as what we had back at Lv 75.

Yep... this is the work of none other than Tanaka's Grudge.
(I made this for another thread, but it's fitting here too)

I wish they had another Fan Festival of sorts or any public event so we can boo Tanaka off the stage, that way he can FINALLY get an idea of how much we hate the current direction, this regression, of the game.

Edited, Dec 25th 2011 5:42pm by FiliusLunae
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#22 Dec 25 2011 at 7:45 PM Rating: Good
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Weren't you people around for dynamis?

People who RMT a ******* of gil will sponsor a PW shell and find a bunch of gullible mooks to show up twice a week (or more, since ZNM don't have the same restrictions as old dynamis) while they take all the rewards.

Dynamis was the same way. Dozens of people would show up, and forfeit all the currency to the shell leader. Hell, if a thief used steal and got a coin, they had to turn it over to the shell leader. People did this event for years.

People -will- complete this. It'll suck for 99% of the game, it's a terrible idea, and frankly I will never so much as consider it...

But there will be manipulative people who trick a bunch of mooks into farming a year or two for their item.
#23 Dec 25 2011 at 7:49 PM Rating: Good
ItsAMyri wrote:
Dynamis was the same way. Dozens of people would show up, and forfeit all the currency to the shell leader. Hell, if a thief used steal and got a coin, they had to turn it over to the shell leader.


Maybe in your shell, but we at least had "You steal it, you earned it" for the thieves.

My dyna shell dissolved after I finished my relic, and now I'm helping out with their Empyreans. Everyone is gonna be stuck at 90 or 95, though. Even I'll be stuck at 95 on my relic. Feels so lame...

I wish they had kept the Empyrean/mythic/relic upgrades reasonable for 99, and then added in a new series of uberOMGWTFBBQ weapons that were 99 only.
#24 Dec 25 2011 at 10:42 PM Rating: Default
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Even if the trial ends up being 500 drops, and even if those drops aren't adjusted, and even if PW pops aren't modified somehow, and even if you don't count PW pops obtained via Daily Rewards... this summary still isn't even close to accurate.

Nobody is going to collect zeni on a single character, and nobody is going to be popping all the prerequisite NMs on just one person. It will be a group effort, or at least being done multiboxed. This entire estimate is incredibly skewed. Back when ZNM was popular, I used to bazaar plates for my gil. I could take 3 characters out with 2 cameras on each and get over 100 plates in 20 minutes.

Also:
ogrebattle wrote:
Does this name sound familiar to you? He should. He's the infamous superboss that got Final Fantasy XI its greatest media attention in years when a group of hardcore players put in 18 continuous hours trying to beat him once and quit when they were too physically exhausted to continue.

This is the second time in a week I've seen someone make a big deal about PW's media coverage. A 30-second snippet on X-Play doesn't constitute FFXI's "greatest media attention". I wouldn't consider it "media attnetion" at all. Ask anybody who hasn't played FFXI about it, even a gamer, and see if they know WTF you're talking about.

Edited, Dec 25th 2011 10:44pm by Chewzer
#25 Dec 25 2011 at 10:56 PM Rating: Good
It made it onto Yahoo! News, too!
#26 Dec 25 2011 at 11:56 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
Weren't you people around for dynamis?

People who RMT a sh*tlot of gil will sponsor a PW shell and find a bunch of gullible mooks to show up twice a week (or more, since ZNM don't have the same restrictions as old dynamis) while they take all the rewards.

Dynamis was the same way. Dozens of people would show up, and forfeit all the currency to the shell leader. Hell, if a thief used steal and got a coin, they had to turn it over to the shell leader. People did this event for years.


Dynamis began in 2004 and went on exactly as you described until abyssea entered the scene (minus the steal, I got to keep my stolen coins also). Over those seven years a lot of people got pissed off at the way the event was handled. The reason we stayed was mostly because either A:) we had a lot of points saved and didn't want to lose them (possibly again because our previous shell(s) broke) even though there were still half a dozen people ahead of us on the best drops, or B:) because all of our friends were trapped in the end game so far that if we weren't participating in an event or two (or four... or six) with a weekly schedule (Mon Thurs dyna, tues fri sky, sat einherjar, sun wed limbus.... you KNOW what I'm talking about) we wouldn't be playing the game AT ALL because casual content died off long ago. For years the only events were full alliance sans the occasional nyzule isle. People didn't like it then, and most of them would rather not return to it now. The memories of those corrupt leadership systems and injust loot distributions have not gone away, they merely took a back seat when abyssea was released, and herein lies the flaw. That cycle has been broken for a year and a half now, and I'm sure I speak for most players when I say I don't want to return to it. The game used to feel like a second job but now it feels like a game once again. Abyssea did more than make the game easier, it broke the chains end game had over our playtime and changed the way we perceive the game and its content forever. People have since realized the rewards may not be worth being told where to go, what job to play, what they can and can't do, when they can log off, and whether or not they have permission to use the bathroom.

It is going to be exceedingly difficult for anyone to gather an army of peons to farm pop sets for them with no gratification in return. That won't work anymore because times have changed. S-E can't create gear powerful enough for me to justify that level of commitment ever again. I'm content not having the best stuff because I know that there will always be something better in the next update. There is no way 500 pandy warden drops is ever going to be reasonable short of a massive overhaul of the whole Zeni NM system, because players will burn out farming pandy warden pops long before the mythic holder gets very far.
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