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Salvage Duplication was not an exploit worthy of banningFollow

#1 Jan 25 2009 at 10:40 AM Rating: Default
Last week, hundreds of loyal players of the MMORPG Final Fantasy XI were told that their recent suspensions are now permanent bans from the game. At the surface, this event may seem no different from the other monthly occasions on which an upwards of 10,000 accounts are terminated. However, previously, this type of large scale banning has generally been done as a means to combat the exchange of in-game currency for real-world currency, a problem that has plagued the game since its inception.

What makes this particular banning different is that it is in reaction to a game flaw introduced and left in place for months after its discovery by the games producers and not real money trade or third-party program use (hacks). As an action against the most experienced, loyal, and accomplished players in the game, the event is likely to sound the death knell for the long running MMORPG, and perhaps the company itself.

One of Final Fantasy’s most enjoyable and rewarding events is a battlefield called Salvage. For this event players are taken to a special area with all of their equipment and abilities restricted. Over the course of the event, players defeat monsters that can drop items that slowly remove these restrictions, increasing the power of the character.

When Salvage was first introduced, the event was a mystery. The methods now known to allow rare and rewarding monsters to appear had to be figured out through methods of trial and error. The most advanced players had difficulty achieving success, lost in an area with no directions. When stressed players approached Square Enix for guidance, their pleas seemed to be overlooked. Eventually, after months of intent questioning and probing, Square Enix developers conceded that the event was more difficult than intended.

In June 2007, sixth months later, SE adjusted the difficulty of Salvage by increasing the number of ways one could obtain these restriction-removing items. Shortly after these changes, another method to increase item rewards was uncovered. By executing a series of commands, items could be duplicated, similar to the already-implemented method of duplicating items within the area.

Some within the select groups that had discovered this method showed concern. Four distinct players now report having called a Game Master (GM), the name of Square Enix's in-game support, calling attention to this manner as early as August of 2007. Each player claims that they were told that "The area is functioning as expected" or "We will investigate the matter" by the GM staff. One report even suggested that the GM staff claimed the development team was aware of the area's behavior and was not going to take any corrective measures.

The terms of service states that players are forbidden to use cheats, exploits, or third-party programs. This message runs deep as many are glad to see third-party program users removed from the game. These same users, however, are having a different take on the recent banning.

"Before, we have happy to see cheaters and RMT go. The game economy improved, prices dropped, and overall fairness was seemingly at the top of SE's agenda," one player on the Asura server who was not directly affected by the banning writes. "With this banning, we have seen a large portion game's top players shut down, ending friendships and coalitions within the players that have kept FFXI alive for so long."

These opinions are not uncommon as many point to the terms of service as an inadequate justification for the banning.

"The terms of service outlaws cheats, exploits, and third-party programs," a banned player on Garuda writes. "What it does not do is define what cheats and exploits are."

When pointed to other strange elements of the game, this point seems more and more valid. In the same version update that modified Salvage, developers introduced Odin, one of the hardest boss monsters in the game. In order to defeat Odin, players are required to put themselves in a healing state or face instant death from a powerful attack. In fact Final Fantasy XI is known for encouraging players to experiment with battle tactics that include forcing monsters into unnatural movement patterns that allow players to avoid any threatening attacks, monsters that can only be defeated with certain weapons, and monsters that require the use of the same party commands used in Salvage to allow more than the allowed 18 players to face a monster.

After more than a thousand players were aware of the new method, suddenly Square Enix seemed to rapidly change direction. In November 2008, at the pressuring of what many describe as a "distinct but vocal minority" of the player base, Square Enix decided to shut down what they called a "programming error" in an emergency maintenance. Shortly after, again at the pressuring of players, they announced they would be investigating those who used the method within Salvage.

Again, however, players called foul.

"Many outside the few who had discovered the seemingly legitimate method were enraged because they were not privy to the method," said one player on the Phoenix server. "The Salvage process was essentially contained to the top players of the game. After all, they were the only ones generally intuitive enough to discover the inner workings of the area."

The technique, which did not require the circumventing of game mechanics or third-party programs, was considered a highly illegal exploit by the game's developers and the accounts that could be "sold" to other online gamers for the upwards of $50,000 were essentially destroyed, ending years of accomplishments and game play for what was considering a "programming error".

Now, many former Final Fantasy XI players sit, 16 months after the method was brought to the attention of the game's developers, without their accounts. Many point out that Square Enix has only dropping sales and a frustrated player base to look forward to as former players hope to be able to re-obtain their banned accounts and others look around and see their friends gone.

It appears that when game developers suggested that players should "reach for the sky", they didn't mean it. Somehow, almost 1,000 people reached too high.
#2 Jan 25 2009 at 10:41 AM Rating: Decent
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Please post this in link=http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/forum.html?forum=17]THIS[/link forum.
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#3 Jan 25 2009 at 10:42 AM Rating: Good
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JohnBoyZeroZero wrote:
BAAAAWWWWWW FFXI IS DIEING BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWWW MOMMY MOMMY MAKE THE EBIL SE STOP BEING MEAN!!!!


...and this needed ANOTHER thread because...?
#4 Jan 25 2009 at 10:43 AM Rating: Good
The bannings weren't just because of the cheat. The bannings were because of the conspiracy to keep the cheat a secret.

This has been FFXI's Watergate.

. . . Hmmm. Salvagate? Dupegate?
#5 Jan 25 2009 at 10:46 AM Rating: Default
Because this is a FFXI site, I'll expound on my article a bit and explain the details of the bug, for those who are not aware. Keep in mind this has already been patched and no longer works.

The 'Exploit' was performed by entering salvage in an alliance. Once inside the alliance leader would dissolve the alliance. Upon doing this all members of the now not allianced parties could see the same treasure pool (much like dynamis). The duplication occured when the leaders of the various parties set themself to Quartermaster.

The other intresting feature about this technique was that once the alliance was broken, songs and spells behaved as though all players were in a single party. Ballads could hit all 18 members in the instance.
#6 Jan 25 2009 at 10:49 AM Rating: Decent
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1,087 posts
Puppet much ?
#7 Jan 25 2009 at 10:52 AM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
JohnBoyZeroZero wrote:
What makes this particular banning different is that it is in reaction to a game flaw introduced and left in place for months after its discovery by the games producers


Wrong, there was an emergency maint. within hours of someone reporting it to a GM. There were posts about it on gamefaqs.

JohnBoyZeroZero wrote:
Because this is a FFXI site, I'll expound on my article a bit and explain the details of the bug, for those who are not aware. Keep in mind this has already been patched and no longer works.

The 'Exploit' was performed by entering salvage in an alliance. Once inside the alliance leader would dissolve the alliance. Upon doing this all members of the now not allianced parties could see the same treasure pool (much like dynamis). The duplication occured when the leaders of the various parties set themself to Quartermaster.

The other intresting feature about this technique was that once the alliance was broken, songs and spells behaved as though all players were in a single party. Ballads could hit all 18 members in the instance.


So it's very clearly an exploit which is against the ToS and worthy of the banstick. Where are you trying to go with this?

Don't answer, I don't actually care.



Edited, Jan 25th 2009 12:54pm by bsphil
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Almalieque wrote:
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Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
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#8 Jan 25 2009 at 10:54 AM Rating: Good
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Quote:
So it's very clearly an exploit which is against the ToS and worthy of the banstick. Where are you trying to go with this?


also, referring to the title of the thread

Quote:
Salvage Duplication was not an exploit worthy of banning


Any and ALL exploits are worthy of banning,at SE's discression, read the ToS sometime.
#9 Jan 25 2009 at 10:54 AM Rating: Default
This is about the reaction I expected on this site. As free thinking players I thought you may appreciate a different point of view.

The conspirecy to keep this secret, was no different then the consipricy to keep secret how to grow elemental ore back in the day. It was a consiricy of greed, not of cheating. I understand that peopel onteh outside are upset about this. I guess I was just hopeful that it would not create such a bias as to totally close your minds.



Edited, Jan 25th 2009 2:01pm by JohnBoyZeroZero
#10 Jan 25 2009 at 10:56 AM Rating: Good
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375 posts
well i think it was well written and nicely put together, looked very professional and like a real news article. If this was an English or journalism class i'm sure you would get an A+



with that being said...

Less QQ more Pew pew!!!!
#11 Jan 25 2009 at 10:57 AM Rating: Good
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Meh.
#12 Jan 25 2009 at 10:57 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
Maeriya wrote:
Quote:
So it's very clearly an exploit which is against the ToS and worthy of the banstick. Where are you trying to go with this?


also, referring to the title of the thread

Quote:
Salvage Duplication was not an exploit worthy of banning
Tongue-in-cheek, but fair enough.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#13 Jan 25 2009 at 11:01 AM Rating: Excellent
Its clearly an exploit and whoever did it was intending to do it.
#14 Jan 25 2009 at 11:01 AM Rating: Default
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1,087 posts
Written in "Politician-Speak" though.

#15 Jan 25 2009 at 11:06 AM Rating: Good
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Terrifyingspeed wrote:
Written in "Politician-Speak" though.


I guess. It was well written, I just disagree with the point. I do find it somewhat disheartening that it's been rated into oblivion. It wasn't whiny, it didn't attack people, and it was easier to read and understand than a good 60% of the posts on this board.
#16 Jan 25 2009 at 11:07 AM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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21,739 posts
JohnBoyZeroZero wrote:
The conspirecy to keep this secret, was no different then the consipricy to keep secret how to grow elemental ore back in the day.
People weren't duping elemental ores. It's vastly different.
____________________________
His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#17 Jan 25 2009 at 11:09 AM Rating: Decent
Q_Q
#18 Jan 25 2009 at 11:16 AM Rating: Default
The point I am trying to make, and apparently doing a poor job of making is that:
Yes we all agree exploits are bad and wrong. However do we all agree what exploits are? And more importantly have we ever been given any guidance by SE aside from just being haphazzardly banned in this case.

The three key facts that caused myself and many of my friends to question the legitimacy of this technique.

1. When asked directly the GM said "The area is working as expected". If I had the good sense to screenshot that, I suspect the discussion would take a much different tone, unfortunatley I did not. My other sources are digging through their screen shots, hopefully one if them will have one of thier discussion.

2. The very same update introduced a monster (Odin) that used /heal as part of the strategy to beat it. Does anybody think that healing mid battle to avoid death is an exploit? Think of anyplace else prior to Odin that monsters react to anything other than terrain or direct action. I'll save you some time, there are none.

3. After speaking with the GM (and thus notifying SE) the bug remained in the game for SIXTEEN months.


I don't really expect that everybody or anybody for taht matter will agree with me, I just want to be sure that my point is well made and clear before I take this to the next level.
#19 Jan 25 2009 at 11:17 AM Rating: Good
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JohnBoyZeroZero wrote:
the event is likely to sound the death knell for the long running MMORPG, and perhaps the company itself.


lol
#20 Jan 25 2009 at 11:17 AM Rating: Decent
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1,087 posts
Agreed, very well written.

Use of terms like "Select Group" & seemingly interchangeable "Many"
"Minority" etc...

Obvious to see OP point of view was a personal belief, but attempted to support
with "evidence".

I have no problem with someone believing, differently but trying to put opposing views in the "Minority" generally doesn't engender goodwill.

Interestingly enough, it appears my server (Siren) has had no Bannings.

Which I'm happy for due to numerous reasons.
#21 Jan 25 2009 at 11:19 AM Rating: Default
What I learned from the Original Poster's post:

They should have sold those "$50,000 accounts" while they had the chance.



In elementary school we learned to compare and contrast.. First you take a Circle. Then you put another circle to the right of it, overlapping part of the first circle. It'll look like this. On the left circle, you write things about a subject that is different then another topic, which in opposition is placed in the other circle. Oh wait, there is still that small area in the center. That is where you compare the similarities these two topics have in common.

You now have a new activity. Here are your topics.

1. Playonline/ Square Enix
2. The Pope

Share your results with us so we can expand our horizons and think "outside the box".........
#22 Jan 25 2009 at 11:29 AM Rating: Good
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After seeing OP's last response:

Take it to the next level ! I feel there should be some leeway for Players
who tried to do the right thing, & I hope you can prove it (& that appeals are possible).

Not sure if you would prevail, but it never hurts to open communication.

It generally improves the experience of everyone involved.

Prior to Duping, EVERYONE worked pretty hard to improve drop rates in a number of ways : having TH4 present, Full-moon fights, lol, even carrying Four Leaf buds & wild rabbit tails, I still run into people who insist on THF doing killing blow.

These however are within commonly understood game function (even though they dont all work)
#23 Jan 25 2009 at 11:30 AM Rating: Default
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6,631 posts
Instead of arguing on "another thread". I declare my post count has just increased by 1:

Postcount++
Postcount=Postcount+1

____________________________
Amanada (Cerberus-Retired) (aka MaiNoKen/Steven)
-- Thank you for the fun times in Vana'diel

Art for the sake of art itself is an idle sentence.
Art for the sake of truth, for the sake of what is
beautiful and good — that is the creed I seek.
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not when there is nothing left to add,
but when there is nothing left to take away.
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#24 Jan 25 2009 at 11:36 AM Rating: Excellent
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551 posts
Short answer; players deliberately used a flaw in the game for own personal gain, knowing it was not supposed to be that way. They should be punished in one way or another.
#25 Jan 25 2009 at 11:42 AM Rating: Default
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476 posts
scchan wrote:
Instead of arguing on "another thread". I declare my post count has just increased by 1:

Postcount++
Postcount=Postcount+1


for (int i = 0; i < *****; ++i)
{
postCount=postCount+1
}

FTFY

Edited, Jan 25th 2009 12:44pm by ZypherX
#26 Jan 25 2009 at 11:45 AM Rating: Good
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2,815 posts
I didn't think "wah" could be stretched that long.
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