Shura Togi
With the new update, this isn't worth it for NIN or SAM. Shura Togi is going for around 1.2 mil on my server. Think about it...
Haubergeon: The positives
STR+5 = 5 Attk
DEX+5 = 5 Accuracy
Accuracy +10
Attack +10
Outcome = 15 Attack, 15 Accuracy
=======================
Comparing Hauby to Shura is quite simple. Only thing we are missing from Shura is an extra 5 attack... wanna spend 1 mil for 5 extra attack? Go right ahead. The negatives for comparing the two isn't much really either. For Hauby we are losing -22.5 Evasion, it may seem big, but Ninja shouldn't be tanking in this armor anyway, and on SAM they aren't a main tank at all unless you are a SAM/NIN tank type, but that's not in our equation at the moment. And the negative on Shura is -50 HP.
However, for MNK this is a but different, but their AF2 gear is quite nice as well. I myself am a 75 SAM and 75 NIN, and Koga Chainmail comes close to Shura Togi if not better incase you decide to go NIN/RNG (I also like the colors of Koga better as well). Now depending if you're having trouble getting Koga, why pay for something when you can have it for free?
My conclusion is, with the update, there are different solutions before getting this armor piece. Just really all depends, I'm not going to get into the technical field of people arguing about WS damage, this is only the true science of it.
Edited, Sep 2nd 2007 4:29pm by Zigan
Shura Togi
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31 posts
1 DEX != 1 ACC
1 STR != 1 ATK
1 DEX = .7 ACC
I forgot the STR conversion but I'm too lazy to look it up.
For your argument however, they are close enough that it's still not worth it. Especially as a SAM when your WS are based off STR mods, STR > ATK. These aren't *** terrible, but not that great for what you have to go through to get them.
1 STR != 1 ATK
1 DEX = .7 ACC
I forgot the STR conversion but I'm too lazy to look it up.
For your argument however, they are close enough that it's still not worth it. Especially as a SAM when your WS are based off STR mods, STR > ATK. These aren't *** terrible, but not that great for what you have to go through to get them.
Maybe all these posts are old or something, but i really don't see where everyone is comming from who says its better for SAM than MNK. For Samurai i'd want a Osode due to the heavy mods on WS output. As well as the fact acc is less important when your subbing THF, which is common for Samurai on gods.
Secondly, Asuran Fists being the bread and butter for MNKs endgame relies more on ACC and ATK than any other WS in the game. Something Togi gives and Osode does not.
Secondly, Asuran Fists being the bread and butter for MNKs endgame relies more on ACC and ATK than any other WS in the game. Something Togi gives and Osode does not.
Updated icon and added quest. Deleted purifying recipe.
Got the D.Abj.Body from Kirin fight yesterday. Mortgaged myself silly, sold my Scorp Harness and other gears to get the gil to pay a crafter for Cursed Togi. Uncursed it immediately and smiled big.
Not only does this give you the accuracy of a scorp harness, but it gives you +20 ATTACK... That would require +40 in strength to get that much attack.
So I go out to Wajaom Woodlands after I get it and do some tests. I still have my NINJA Chainmail (NINJA AF) so I fight about 20 birds near the zone to Al Zahbi.
Blade: Jin
Average Weaponskill damage with NINJA CHAINMAIL -- 300-400
Average Weaponskill damage with SHURA TOGI -- 700-800
I am quite sure that I could find a way to simulate the ATTACK+20 difference, and I might decide to do that. However, just from +20 attack I can't imagine that my WS damage would be that much different and here's why I say that. I used to have a Horomusha Kote, and I never had that kind of damage with that piece of gear. Since I got the drop from Seiryu (Seiryu's Kote) i sold my H.Kote and Arhat's+1 and use the S.Kote exclusively. Before that, I never ever ever ever ever had a Blade: JIN do more than about 500 even with the H.Kote (which adds ATT+15)
Additionally, I also used to have a Hauby and also again, I NEVER noticed this kind of weaponskill damage EVER, even though the stats look to be better on a hauby for DD. STR+5 DEX+5 ATT+10 ACC+10 EVA-20... I am telling you I really think there's some kind of hidden bonus attributable to this piece of gear.
So it is therefore (in my humble opinion) reasonable to assume that there is some kind of hidden feature to this body gear that adds to weaponskill damage. Has anybody else had any other experience with this?
Edited, Jul 18th 2006 at 5:14pm EDT by Marinka
Not only does this give you the accuracy of a scorp harness, but it gives you +20 ATTACK... That would require +40 in strength to get that much attack.
So I go out to Wajaom Woodlands after I get it and do some tests. I still have my NINJA Chainmail (NINJA AF) so I fight about 20 birds near the zone to Al Zahbi.
Blade: Jin
Average Weaponskill damage with NINJA CHAINMAIL -- 300-400
Average Weaponskill damage with SHURA TOGI -- 700-800
I am quite sure that I could find a way to simulate the ATTACK+20 difference, and I might decide to do that. However, just from +20 attack I can't imagine that my WS damage would be that much different and here's why I say that. I used to have a Horomusha Kote, and I never had that kind of damage with that piece of gear. Since I got the drop from Seiryu (Seiryu's Kote) i sold my H.Kote and Arhat's+1 and use the S.Kote exclusively. Before that, I never ever ever ever ever had a Blade: JIN do more than about 500 even with the H.Kote (which adds ATT+15)
Additionally, I also used to have a Hauby and also again, I NEVER noticed this kind of weaponskill damage EVER, even though the stats look to be better on a hauby for DD. STR+5 DEX+5 ATT+10 ACC+10 EVA-20... I am telling you I really think there's some kind of hidden bonus attributable to this piece of gear.
So it is therefore (in my humble opinion) reasonable to assume that there is some kind of hidden feature to this body gear that adds to weaponskill damage. Has anybody else had any other experience with this?
Edited, Jul 18th 2006 at 5:14pm EDT by Marinka
It's the negative HP. It's like you went on a diet, and now your WS are better because you're not quite as Fat now. :D woohoo
What WS were you using? Were you using a multi hit WS? If you were could you have been missing one hit with Ninja chainmail, that you were getting from this from the +10 acc? Just a thought for you.
ATK as well as STR gives better returns in WS damage...its the extra 10 attack...attack gives these better ws turns at higher lvls
Oh, please dont say "It takes 40 STR to get that kind of attack" i think i just puked in my mouth a little
31 posts
agreed kirin's osode > this... especially for nin
at 75 acc and att mean ****, only str and any other modifiers you have in ws actually mean something
nin's case dex 30% str 30% on jin....
sam = 75% str i'm thinkin on yuki through kasha
mnk = 10% str 10% vit ... go genbu's kabuto!
war has some vit attributes to steel cyclone i think too
at 75 acc and att mean ****, only str and any other modifiers you have in ws actually mean something
nin's case dex 30% str 30% on jin....
sam = 75% str i'm thinkin on yuki through kasha
mnk = 10% str 10% vit ... go genbu's kabuto!
war has some vit attributes to steel cyclone i think too
31 posts
i'm mnk 65 and i still don't get why str is better than attack does it affect ws more or what?
please help a confused galka mnk.
please help a confused galka mnk.
14 posts
i personally say this item isnt worth the money u spend.. especially for sam.. i laugh at retarded sams who use this.. u say the attacks betetr.. but its not u want Str for sam even at 75.. if u disagree ur nab and need to be pwnedsam on my server uses hauby while he gets tp and switches to osode for ws and he does very good dmg, havent seen any sams with shura infact most use osode or hachi domaru or w/e.. Str > attack @ 75 especially on ws's
Pwnjoface's Registered FFXI Characters Under Profile: Vautraubont Elvaan 62 Warrior / 31 Ninja
36 posts
[quote=PwnjofaceStr > attack @ 75 especially on ws's[/quote]
only on ws you mean right? lol
only on ws you mean right? lol
You're post offends all of my senses, some I didn't even know I had.
If you use STR equipment for TPing over Attack equipment at ANY level as ANY job you are: Stupid. No smart/intelligent SAM would ever dream of TPing in Hachiman Domaru over this.
Personally I use this for TP, and Osode for WS.
If you use STR equipment for TPing over Attack equipment at ANY level as ANY job you are: Stupid. No smart/intelligent SAM would ever dream of TPing in Hachiman Domaru over this.
Personally I use this for TP, and Osode for WS.
36 posts
well... not with monk... STR is good for monks even on tp build... but still this is much much better than kirins osode for tp hands down. if someone is tping in an osode they are ignorant. >.>
Edited, Jul 17th 2006 at 2:40am EDT by AmbientXII
Edited, Jul 17th 2006 at 2:40am EDT by AmbientXII
#REDACTED,
Posted: Feb 19 2006 at 2:32 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) ok i admit this is a sweet *** piece of equip but for samurais it is not necessary. haubergeon (sp?) is a better choose unless ur uber rich to which u can gamble for this togi. I was also told by a very uber samurai that this is only good if ur str used for tp gain is at like +20 or more if u understand how str and attack works ull understand that. This is more so a monk piece and if u ask for presidence over a mnk for this piece u r stupid. Kirin osode is another problem for samurais if u think about it, it is only +2 str from ur hachiman. i still would want an osode but i would have no problem letting jobs that they r more useful for. You r better off buying a foragers mantle some flames rings if u want to look kool and as for acc u really can pretty much gain tp in ur ws gear if u use sushi so let the mnks get it first (if u think im choosin sides im not im a 75 sam and would like this as well but rather some1 better for it get first so maybe the next kirin guards w/e fight go faster and i can get one)
Just got mine yesterday cost me 10m to do it, sold my SH to fund togi.
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?115949
Edited, Sat Dec 31 02:39:37 2005
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?115949
Edited, Sat Dec 31 02:39:37 2005
i still am disgusted at sams wearing this..... HWERE A DAMN HAUB WTF ITS LIKE x123901859018490689024580 better
Thank you captain moron. Learn about diminishing strength results on weapons skills then say SAMs shouldn't wear it.
you my friend are an I*D*I*O*T
lol Haub fails in comparison to this piece right here
STR at 75 additives dont do much anymore so basically at 75 you want ATK+ and only ATK+
lol Haub fails in comparison to this piece right here
STR at 75 additives dont do much anymore so basically at 75 you want ATK+ and only ATK+
So... where's the STR?
Umm, where is that TP Gain to get a Weapon Skill faster? Gosh, any Vitality there? No? Damn... how much is this again? 20 million on Asura Server? DANG. You say it takes TWO divine lumbers?! You gotta be kidding right? No dexterity on that eh? You say it LOWERS my hp? Jeez. It could break during the synthesis and all my money could evaporate in front of my eyes that I could've spent on something else? Wow. And you have to macro in your Domaru or Kirins Osode for a Weapon Skill ANYWAY??
Gosh, I'm just going to get a Hachiman Domaru and use a Bomb Core attack+12 hows that sound lol... and a Snipers Ring or even Life Belt if i have to hahaha
Seriously... why would you use that Divine Lumber on this when you could get like a Shura Helm and Shura Haidate made instead?? Maybe you have the uber l33t connections or something or just HAVE to have a full set of Shura gear even though some of it just blows.
Umm, where is that TP Gain to get a Weapon Skill faster? Gosh, any Vitality there? No? Damn... how much is this again? 20 million on Asura Server? DANG. You say it takes TWO divine lumbers?! You gotta be kidding right? No dexterity on that eh? You say it LOWERS my hp? Jeez. It could break during the synthesis and all my money could evaporate in front of my eyes that I could've spent on something else? Wow. And you have to macro in your Domaru or Kirins Osode for a Weapon Skill ANYWAY??
Gosh, I'm just going to get a Hachiman Domaru and use a Bomb Core attack+12 hows that sound lol... and a Snipers Ring or even Life Belt if i have to hahaha
Seriously... why would you use that Divine Lumber on this when you could get like a Shura Helm and Shura Haidate made instead?? Maybe you have the uber l33t connections or something or just HAVE to have a full set of Shura gear even though some of it just blows.
16 posts
First off, if you have a good sky/hnm LS getting the gil/items for this shouldnt take to terribly long. Also, macros shouldnt be anything new to you if you're a good samurai >_> ACC gear for TP gain, STR gear for WS. Doesnt take that much effort to hit two buttons. And if you have your merits on samurai, that extra TP gain you have from hachiman domaru isn't really needed. All the ACC from capped gkt skill and meditate timer -1minute = TP all the time. Just meditate right before you use your WS and you'll have TP every time. Half *** sams are what gives us other sams a bad name. Hope you arent one of them
SAM cant equip bomb core ._.
---------------------------------------
Why would you use that Divine Lumber on this when you could get like a Shura Helm and Shura Haidate made instead?? Hmmm...
Well, in terms of TP gain or just plain hitting the mob, this could work. But so does a Haubergeon. Shura Togi has more evasion on it. But Shura also has lower HP on it too. The attack plus 20 thing I'm sure helps with each individual attack. But, is it truly worth it? Haubergeon usually is about half the price this is plus on a Hauby you get STR and DEX bonuses. You would have to stack the attack from this with a Bomb Core or something to see the real payoff. And replace the Life Belt slot with a Warwolf Belt. So, I guess end of story is Shura Togi is cool enough but it wins the award for most overpriced equipment (two divine lumbers). Also, for a pure monk job, this seems cooler than for SAM or NIN.
One more thing - when this drops your Linkshell will turn into this:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b125/kariudo/shuratogi.jpg
watch friendships die and linkshells break for the precious
Why would you use that Divine Lumber on this when you could get like a Shura Helm and Shura Haidate made instead?? Hmmm...
Well, in terms of TP gain or just plain hitting the mob, this could work. But so does a Haubergeon. Shura Togi has more evasion on it. But Shura also has lower HP on it too. The attack plus 20 thing I'm sure helps with each individual attack. But, is it truly worth it? Haubergeon usually is about half the price this is plus on a Hauby you get STR and DEX bonuses. You would have to stack the attack from this with a Bomb Core or something to see the real payoff. And replace the Life Belt slot with a Warwolf Belt. So, I guess end of story is Shura Togi is cool enough but it wins the award for most overpriced equipment (two divine lumbers). Also, for a pure monk job, this seems cooler than for SAM or NIN.
One more thing - when this drops your Linkshell will turn into this:
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b125/kariudo/shuratogi.jpg
watch friendships die and linkshells break for the precious
LMAO! OMG! i love it... my precious!!!
kirin isn't the hardest, he's the third hardest from what i figure(not including Sea)
Vrtra
Tiamat
Kirin
Vrtra
Tiamat
Kirin
20 posts
meh, more like
dynamis lord
vrtra
jormungand
tiamat
king vinegaroon
kirin
^Q^
dynamis lord
vrtra
jormungand
tiamat
king vinegaroon
kirin
^Q^
how about jailer of love and absolute virtue? ; ;
14 posts
Shura Togi > Haubergeon...for SAM end of story STR isnt a big deal we have Hachiman Domaru or Kirin Osode to sub in.
I swap this in for my TP Gear.. take it off and use Kirin's Osode for my STR+ gear.
I LOVE IT ^^
I LOVE IT ^^
SATA + WS can miss, very uncommon, but een it happen a few times. And the Dark Knight was good too.
Anywhooo, yeah this armor is great for MNK/SAM - NIN have som better alternatives but great for them too.
Anywhooo, yeah this armor is great for MNK/SAM - NIN have som better alternatives but great for them too.
No, no they can't. SA + WS = gauranteed critical hit. wont miss. thats why people can swap in STR gear for accuracy gear during WS with /thf. only way you can miss a SATA WS is if the Weapon skill you are using, doesnt stack with SA, or, the mob moved so you were no longer in back.
It's only guaranteed if you're behind the mob. If the mob turns, or the player is really bad at lining up, it can and will miss. It isn't dependent on accuracy though (unless I've missed something somewhere along the line.. Entirely possible. :-b)
#REDACTED,
Posted: Oct 17 2005 at 1:42 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) LoL Some people have to be really bored to go in and rate down posts like this. If my attempt to clarify a question bothered you enough to necessitate a rate down, why not explain why?
#REDACTED,
Posted: Jun 15 2005 at 2:24 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I honestly think this is **** compared to teh Adaman Haubruck. I mean it give us +15 acc 5 more than this and +15 att which is 5 less than this with +10 str and +10 dex. I think the adaman haubruk is godly for a mnk, But hahahahaha u can wear it and this thing looks like **** compared to the adaman haubruck
#REDACTED,
Posted: Jun 29 2005 at 3:15 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) dude ur so right man! go spend ur time and gil for a Adaman Hauberk, it will make you godly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! dont listen to these fools XD
I just thought I'd alert you that you're a total ******* moron. Just thought you'd like to know.
Quote:
I think the adaman haubruk is godly for a mnk
what are you, idiot?
Shura Togi is for mnk/sam/nin only.
Adaman Hauberk is for war/drk/bst only.
Fool.
#REDACTED,
Posted: Jul 31 2005 at 11:55 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) oh zen zen are u a ******* ******* or what can u not read?
Scholar
32 posts
Did you even read what you wrote in your first post before hitting the post message button?
"I think the adaman haubruk is godly for a mnk, But hahahahaha u can wear it and this thing looks like sh*t compared to the adaman haubruck"
Copy and pasted directly from your post. Kind of hard to convey what you're trying to say when you leave out the ' and T in the word can't. I can't (see it's not that hard) blame the guy for responding the way he did to your post, considering your spelling and how poorly thought out your post was originally. For someone so critical of the English language you should learn how to spell the words "you", "you're", and "hauberk".
Edited, Wed Aug 10 18:46:14 2005
"I think the adaman haubruk is godly for a mnk, But hahahahaha u can wear it and this thing looks like sh*t compared to the adaman haubruck"
Copy and pasted directly from your post. Kind of hard to convey what you're trying to say when you leave out the ' and T in the word can't. I can't (see it's not that hard) blame the guy for responding the way he did to your post, considering your spelling and how poorly thought out your post was originally. For someone so critical of the English language you should learn how to spell the words "you", "you're", and "hauberk".
Edited, Wed Aug 10 18:46:14 2005
Or you know you could sub THF and never miss a WS
42 posts
lol, if you sub thf, and miss a ws, I'm sorry but, you must be really bad. SATA + WS never misses.
I would say either Haubergeon or Hachiman domaru for sata ws.
I would say either Haubergeon or Hachiman domaru for sata ws.
Now that you mention it, I've never missed a WS and 90% of the time THF is my sub or main.
I think that as a SAM I would be more concerned with my WS hitting the mob so that you can have someone like a THF or a DRK finish the chain for a lot of damage + a strong MB, WS damage comes second. Hitting the mob and landing a WS is more important than doing a ton of WS damage, therefore I would pick haubergeon over this.
This looks cool so I want it anyway, however.
This looks cool so I want it anyway, however.
Shura togi is by far best for SAM! Not even considering the fact that it is made from Cursed togi which is made from lvl 50 Sam JSE the Hara-Ate.
The best Body armor for MNK By far is Kirin's Osode. +10 every stat for monk is unbelievable. The added vit, mnd, dex, and str will benefit them hell of a lot more then a samurai. Monk depend on those stats mostly. Samurai depend on STR for WS dmg and dex and acc.
The best Body armor for MNK By far is Kirin's Osode. +10 every stat for monk is unbelievable. The added vit, mnd, dex, and str will benefit them hell of a lot more then a samurai. Monk depend on those stats mostly. Samurai depend on STR for WS dmg and dex and acc.
Not neccisarily (I can't spell :))...
VIT? Well in an EXP PT, unless you're constantly grabbing hate, VIT isn't really a must (Except to swap in for Chakra).
MND? Well as you hopefully know Chi Blast is based on it, so just swap it in for Chi Blast. o_O
STR? That - in my opinion, don't rate me down for an opinion here >_> - is more or less the only good EXPing stat.
DEX? There's a whole thread on the MNK forums saying MNKs shouldn't go for DEX, but STR instead. I'm not saying DEX is bad, but the accuracy at that level doesn't especially matter, and you'll only be doing 1-2, maybe 3 more crits a battle. Does it add up? Yes, but 1-2 crits isn't going to save someone's life.. probobly.
The ATK *does* seem better to me on the Shura, however just because it's a bigger number doesn't mean it's better, considering they're different stats. But overall, I prefer the Togi. ^^b
(Again, just my opinion...)
Edited, Sat Jun 11 09:51:58 2005
VIT? Well in an EXP PT, unless you're constantly grabbing hate, VIT isn't really a must (Except to swap in for Chakra).
MND? Well as you hopefully know Chi Blast is based on it, so just swap it in for Chi Blast. o_O
STR? That - in my opinion, don't rate me down for an opinion here >_> - is more or less the only good EXPing stat.
DEX? There's a whole thread on the MNK forums saying MNKs shouldn't go for DEX, but STR instead. I'm not saying DEX is bad, but the accuracy at that level doesn't especially matter, and you'll only be doing 1-2, maybe 3 more crits a battle. Does it add up? Yes, but 1-2 crits isn't going to save someone's life.. probobly.
The ATK *does* seem better to me on the Shura, however just because it's a bigger number doesn't mean it's better, considering they're different stats. But overall, I prefer the Togi. ^^b
(Again, just my opinion...)
Edited, Sat Jun 11 09:51:58 2005
Just get both. My togi and osode will take a dump on your SH
ummm.. ya...
I'm not a monk but im pretty sure alot of there weapons skills rely on str and vit.. so if thats true +str and vit is sweet. Also dex does more then acc. it also effects your critical rate... i'm pretty sure we would all like to get more criticals
I'm not a monk but im pretty sure alot of there weapons skills rely on str and vit.. so if thats true +str and vit is sweet. Also dex does more then acc. it also effects your critical rate... i'm pretty sure we would all like to get more criticals
Choy (galka) have this. hehe he is awesome
I agree with most of you, I believe it's awesome MNK equipment. I mean our huge HP pool was meant to withstand the -HP that this equipment deals. Besides... I just love all the +att and +acc that it gives, hehe. I'll definitely be looking into this when I reach the appropriate level.
best for monk, sam have haubergeon
1 post
its good for monk but id think best for sam tho.
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?76936
Edited, Thu Dec 23 15:52:44 2004
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?76936
Edited, Thu Dec 23 15:52:44 2004
6 posts
I just got the Abjuration needed for this Last night...Im a samurai. Took us 3-4 hours to kill Kirin. It was a fun fight ^^
#REDACTED,
Posted: Oct 26 2004 at 6:07 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Ummmmm Ok the stats are comparitable to Haubergeon but its LVL 73! LMAO haubergeon is at 59 which makes it better in general in my opinion. Ofcourse Id Hit It though.
Monk's cannot use the Haub, so this is perfect Monk gear. Makes me wanna cry to imagine having full Shura gear. :P
Scholar
39 posts
Overall this thing is a lot better then Haubergeon for the classes its offered to. Especially Ninja; they could use accuracy, but hey definately can not suffer the loss of evasion that Haubergeon does.
6 posts
As a ninja I do not see myself using this, mainly because it is not as good as NIN AF2 body which has att+18 acc+12 rng att+8 rng acc+8. No hp loss either. So you can see why I wouldent use this.
41 posts
it gives you less acc then haurbergeon
Check this link to confirm the stats for a haubergeon:
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?fitem=2367
You will note that the ACC bonus is identical to the Shura togi. The haubergeon also gives a -5agi and -20evasion, while the togi gives an additional 10 attack over the haubergeon.
Personally, I don't think the choice for sam is THAT clear cut - an additional 10 attack is nothing to sneeze at.
For a nin, the haubergeon could actually be exceedingly bad (what with the large evasion and AGI negatives), and as the previous poster stated, the Scorpion harness would be the way to go.
However, either one would obviously be nice to have ^^
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?fitem=2367
You will note that the ACC bonus is identical to the Shura togi. The haubergeon also gives a -5agi and -20evasion, while the togi gives an additional 10 attack over the haubergeon.
Personally, I don't think the choice for sam is THAT clear cut - an additional 10 attack is nothing to sneeze at.
For a nin, the haubergeon could actually be exceedingly bad (what with the large evasion and AGI negatives), and as the previous poster stated, the Scorpion harness would be the way to go.
However, either one would obviously be nice to have ^^
an additional 10 attack at level 72 is meaningless
15 posts
haubergeon gives more accuracy because of the +5dex.
do you forget the +5 str, sam WS are largely affected by STR if you didnt know..
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